Curious about health?!

Question:

Curious about health?

Just Curious?
Alot of vegans and vegitarians say that being so has nothing to do with animal rights and its a lifestyle and health choice. But then eat things like tofurkey, veggie roast, tofu burgers and tofu bacon, take vitimin suppliments, veggie chocolate mousse, etc. From what I have heard tofu by itself is pretty bland, so they must put some type of chemical in it to make it taste like these meat products. When I was 6 I learned about the 4 basic food groups and a balanced diet, and since adulthood have adhered to said diet plan. I don't eat sweets and excersise daily, I am rarely ill and am as fit as a butchers dog, yet you read many questions on this site and in other vegitarian research, about people with dietary problems and malnutrition since becoming veggie. Not everyone I'm sure, but enough to raise my eyebrow. So how does eating chemicals and lab produced suppliments equate to more healthy than the real thing? No need to be derogatory, it's just a simple question.

Additional Details

6 months ago
I pass no judgement on peoples dietary habits or anything else for that matter, unless asked, but most only want to be told what they want to hear, so not too many ask my opinion anymore, because I'm a realist and enjoy playing devils advocate.

6 months ago
The reason I ask this question is because there was a recent question that I answered and it was stated by many that the choice to go veggie was a health choice and had nothing to do with animal rights, and I should do some research if I thought this was the case, so expanding on the reseach I had already done, as I thought about it before, I found alot of people take suppliments and eat meat flavored tofu and soy, chemicals are used to provide these, so I'm curious of the logic behind it. Your right I am very lucky to have a strong constitution and metabolism, but I work at it.

6 months ago
Well,all the tofurkey and veggie bacon eaters must be avoiding this question as none have defended their chemical diet.The majority of people have a poor diet.With a balanced diet, meat or veggie, you should never need a suppliment or vitamin,although I know many people take these.I even know a veggie that's porky, not fat, but porky. And a poor veggie diet is what people see as weedy and pale. Gorging on meat isn't healthy, so I can see people feeling better, if they stop eating meat, but an alcholic feels better after he stops drinking too. Moderation is the key, and it's mostly red meat that makes you lethargic. Lean white meat is healthy and fish is very healthy, especially for brain development in children, there have been studies on this. World records, that was interesting, but a veggie diet doesn't make you a better ball player, that may have something to do with coaching, nor a better tennis player, no wimbleton wins for him. I know I have good genes, my great grannys 103.

6 months ago
I think both diets if not used responsibly, have the ability to be unhealthy. A couple of you have recognized this, it's too bad the rest of the militants can't. No wonder there is such animosity. Just look at the answers, nothing derogatory, yet still thumbs down for some people, including 2 thumbs down for my simple innocent question. Who ever you are, your sad. How can we ever achieve religous, racial, communal, stability, acceptance, and tolerance if we can't even have an open minded discussion about diet. Talk about the human condition. Cheers to everyone who answered, except the thumbs downers, your still sad.

Answers:

That's a good point. I'm a vegetarian but don't eat the fake meats as I'm not a fan of chemicals (although I don't think all meat substitutes are bad I have seen some natural non chemical ones) - you have to be so careful these days they put so much rubbish in food! I think that some people automatically think that if it's vegetarian then it is healthy so they don't think about it any further - the packaging is usually made to look all wholesome etc etc. Also, it's important to research properly to see what you need to have a balanced diet without meat and a lot of people don't bother.

I tend to agree with you! You also see many vegetarians who look very pale and weedy! I read something a couple of years ago and it stated that some people should actually be tested regarding their diet preferences, as some people actually need meat! But at the same time, everything in moderation!

Nick good morning now let me say you are a very lucky person to be so fit there are a lot of folk out there who would give you their last penny for your good health. Now I don't exactly get your letter are you commending the veggie or condemning them I'm not a veggie i like my meat too much but my late wife was as she could not equate with the slaughter of animals and i admired her for her stand but I think as you suggest that meat must be beneficial to the body in some way as i myself feel a lot of veggies look pale and do indeed get more local virus infections than most. Happy new year and keep up the exercises I do myself and if i missed a day it wouldn't be the same

No we don't need those fake meat products. People just like them because they like the taste of meat. Those who are not comfortable eating or cooking bean-containing ethnic foods will naturally gravitate towards fake meats, as they are the only 'Western' or fast food version of beans (soybeans in this case). Whether as fake meats, refried beans, tofu, dhal, etc, a vegetarian absolutely has to consume beans and nuts.

I find it difficult to define (fish is not meat it is fish) because I don't like meat. However anaemia requires me to eat the occassional piece of chicken - no I don't enjoy it. I hate animal cruelty and try to eat RSPCA welfare/organic chickens only The thought of something dying for my welfare does fill me with horror but I maintain my health because of it's sacrifice.

I eat Quorn and soya mince and all other "meat style" products are eaten by myself and my son. Neither of us can understand why people would eat fatty beef or lamb mince in preference to Quorn or soya mince which tastes good looks good and does not fill the pan with vile fat.

I only eat cholesterol lowering spreads, do not drink milk unless it is soya and eat cheese or yoghurt made from milk or soya.

Maybe I get the best of both worlds. However I am not a pescetarian any longer as I need iron for blood doning etcetera and to keep me fit. However in my job - even when I am on a long spell away I retain my vegetarian diet absolutely. Fish and chicken is reserved for when I can obtain it at home from a source close to cultivation or capture.

I am neither one thing nor the other. However I would take lab produced Quorn or Soya over meat any day of the week. Quorn chicken style dippers taste far better than chicken any day of the week.

A lot of meat eaters also take vitamins and various supplements.
Also, I think a lot of vegetarians are health conscious individuals to begin with.
Further, a person can be a vegetarian and still eat lousy. Too many sweets, not enough water, too much fat, not enough fiber. A vegetarian diet does not automatically insure a healthy diet.

I'm veggie because of the animals not health reasons

I can see being a vegitarian because of cruelty to animals, but not for health reasons, and really you can find organic freerange products all over the place these days, some butcher shops even have ethically slaughtered red meats. As far as taking a pill everyday to maintain nutrition and support a pharmacutical company who won't even give life saving drugs at a cheap price, making billions off the suffering of others is something I will not do, especially when it's been proven that a balanced diet means you should NEVER need a vitimin. As for putting chemicals in my body, pass. I try to buy as much organic food as possible, just to reduce the chemical, hormone, pesticide content in my families diet. You will always find chemicals in your diet but you can definitly reduce it. Saying chemicals are healthy is a fallacy. We eat alot of fish, chicken and turkey and the red meat is kept to a minimum. As for fish not being meat, that is just stupid. May as well say a cow isn't meat, it's a cow. And fish are killed probably the most inhumanely, netted and thrown uncerimoniously into a hold onto a pile of ice to suffocate or beaten with a stick until it stops flopping around. It equates to throwing a cow in a lake to drown, or beating a lamb to death with a stick. There is no real argument for your question, as chemicals are not healthier than the real thing, but alot of vegitarians I'm sure like the taste of meat products and anything can be justified in the name of a cause.

First, you can thank your parents as much as your diet for your apparent good health. You may be riding a fortunate genetic wave. Population statistics do not tell you much about individual cases.

Also, people should glance at the structure of human dentition. We evolved as omnivores and our teeth reflect that fact.

names are given to foods so they have a comfortable label, but most of these foods are what they say. yeggie roast.... veggies roasted in a pan, tofu burger.... tofu pattie grilled and put on a bun. what is wrong with that? didn't say pretend meat! veggie choc mousse? who says it didnt come first and someone changed recipe to dairy? Tofu is bland by itself, but is pure protein, and can take on any taste you marinade it in. Why are meats peppered,marinated, stewed etc, but to change the taste. Personally, I dont eat tofu bacon, tofurkey, or animal named meals, but I use gluten to make textured shapes(shops call meat, chicken, fish etc) to cook with my rice,noodles, steamed, wok cooked veges. I have many allergies, life threatening ones, I am allergic to all seafood(iodine), dairy products, lactose, gelatin, wool, bees, eggs and many man made drugs. My doctors are so pleased that on my vegan diet, at first by necessity and then by life choice(like you I made up my own mind) I am keeping so much better than my younger years when I was constantly in hospital. No matter what diet we choose, there are always people who will be not eat healthy, meat eaters included, and need supplements. Most foods today have chemicals, eggs, hormone fed beef, GM crops, so please dont say because a food is labeled by marketing company as a meat name, we want the taste of animal, we buy nutritional value, or I do anyway.

I know a number of people who don't eat meat after having discovered they 'feel better' without it- which is a personal preference and fine by me, I think people are aware that meat substitutes are often lower in fat than the actual meat- although not always I'm sure. You are quite right that natural foods are better than highly processed foods be they meat or veggie and you can use soya and tofu on there own and flavour them with your own herbs and spices rather than using chemically laden shop bought versions. I am a veggie and I do enjoy veggie sausages, however I only buy cauldren organic ones after trying a number of varieties and finding that I can feel the chemical 'film' on my teeth after eating them. My feeling about them is that they are just a part of a healthy and varied diet, they're something I consider a treat and more often cook my food from scratch than eat processed foods. As you say, there are many unhealthy veggies living on chips and chocolates just as there are many healthy carnivores eating a variety of meats as well as fruit and vegetables, it is not about, in my opinion, whether you are veggie or not, but about what consideration you give to your diet and the variety of foods you choose.

I don't buy any meat replacement / substitute foods, since I don't really feel that meat is missing from my diet. I can't dispute however that they're very popular. I think it's mainly just clever marketing and probably aimed more towards people who gave up meat for ethical reasons, but who still crave the taste of bacon or beef. They tend to be made using dairy products and eggs, so are not viable for vegans anyway.
A few people I've noticed comment about vegetarians and vegans eating sausages and burgers as if it's hypocritical to do so, but sausages and burgers are just shapes and not cuts of meat. If the companies make them people will eat them. As far as ingredients are concerned, it takes me hours to shop because I check all the labels, and stay away from dodgy chemicals and e-numbers.

being vegetarian is much more healthy. the people with malnutrition obviously arent paying attention to their vitamin intake.

World Records

The achievement of vegetarian athletes are particularly noteworthy considering the relatively small percentage of vegetarian entrant. Athletes, after all, are not immune from the cultural conditioning that meat alone gives the required strength and stamina. Yet some have adopted vegetarian diets and the results invite scrutiny.

Dave Scott, of Davis, California is universally recognized as the greatest triathlete in the world. He has won Hawaii's legendary Ironman Triathlon a record four times, including three years in a row, while no one else has ever done it more than once. The event consists, in succession, of a 2.4-mile ocean swim, a 112-mile cycle, and then a 26.2-mile run.

Dave calls the idea that people, and especially athletes, need animal protein a "ridiculous fallacy." There are many people who consider Dave Scott the fittest man who ever lived. Dave Scott is a vegetarian.

I don't know how you might determine the world's fittest man. But if it isn't Dave Scott it might well be Sixto Linares. This remarkable fellow tells of the time:

"when I became a vegetarian in high school, my parents were very very upset that I wouldn't eat meat... After fourteen years, they are finally accepting that it's good for me. They know it's not going to kill me."
During the fourteen years that Sixto's parents begrudgingly came to accept that his diet wasn't killing him, they watched their son set the world's record for the longest single-day triathlon, and display his astounding endurance, speed, and strength in benefits for the American Hearth Association, United Way, the Special Children's Charity, the Leukemia Society of America, and the Muscular Dystrophy Association. So deeply ingrained, however, is the prejudice against vegetarianism that even as their son was showing himself possibly to be the fittest human being alive, his parents only reluctantly came to accept his diet. Sixto says he experimented for awhile with a lacto-ovo vegetarian diet (no meat, but some dairy products and eggs), but now eats no eggs or dairy products and feels better for it.

It doesn't seem to be weakening him too much. In June 1985, at a benefit for the Muscular Dystrophy Association, Sixto broke the world record for the one-day triathlon by swimming 4.8 miles, cycling 185 miles, and then running 52.4 miles.

Then there's Edwin Moses. No man in sports history has ever dominated an event as Edwin Moses has dominated the 400-meter hurdles. The Olympic Gold Medalist went eight years without losing a race, and when Sports Illustrated gave him their 1984 "Sportsman of the Year" award, the magazine said, "No athlete in any sport is so respected by his peers as Moses is in track and field." Edwin Moses is a vegetarian.

Paavo Nurmi, the "Flying Finn," set twenty world records in distance running, and won nine Olympic medals. He was a vegetarian.

Bill Pickering of Great Britain set the world record for swimming the English Channel, but that performance of his pales beside the fact that at the age of 48 he set a new world record for swimming the Bristol Channel. Bill Pickering is a vegetarian.

Murray Rose was only 17 when he won three gold medals in the 1956 Olympic Games in Melbourne, Australia. Four years later, at the 1960 Olympiad, he became the first man in history to retain his 400 meter freestyle title, and he later broke both his 400 meter and 1500 meter freestyle world records. Considered by many to be the greatest swimmer of all time, Rose has been a vegetarian since he was two.

You might not expect to find a vegetarian in world championship body-building competitions. But Andreas Cahling, the Swedish body builder who won the 1980 Mr. International title, is a vegetarian, as has been for over ten years of highest level international competition. One magazine reported that Cahling's "showings at the Mr. Universe competitions, and at the professional body-building world championships, give insiders the feeling he may be the next Arnold Schwarzenegger."

Another fellow who is not exactly a weakling is Stan Price. He holds the world record for the bench press in his weight class. Stan Price is a vegetarian. Roy Hilligan is another gentleman in whose face you probably wouldn't want to kick sand. Among his many titles is the coveted Mr. America crown. Roy Hilligan is a vegetarian.

Vegetarian and vegan athletes are at the top in their sports. Carl Lewis, the runner, won nine Olympic gold medals. Lewis says that he had his best performance as an athlete after he adopted a vegan diet. (source)
The famed bodybuilder, Andreas Cahling (picture at right), is also vegan.

Ruth Heidrich, a vegan Ironman triathlete and marathon runner has racked up more than 700 first-place trophies and set several performance records. She was also named One of the 10 Fittest Women in North America.

Those who would object by saying that most top athletes eat meat can congratulate themselves for missing the point. The fact is that most Westerners are meat-eaters, because we've all grown up thinking it's good for us, and we like it. So of course most athletes are going to be meat-eaters too, since they're only human. These athletes perform well in spite of their diets, not because of them, and would undoubtedly perform even better if they ate less animal foods. And while reliable statistics are hard to come by, there is little doubt that athletes in general have been moving towards vegetarianism in large numbers over the past twenty years.

John Robbins wrote in Diet for a New America about how vegetarians have much more stamina and endurance than meat-eaters:

At Yale, Professor Irving Fisher designed a series of tests to compare the stamina and strength of meat-eaters against that of vegetarians. He selected men from three groups: meat-eating athletes, vegetarian athletes, and vegetarian sedentary subjects. Fisher reported the results of his study in the Yale Medical Journal.25 His findings do not seem to lend a great deal of credibility to the popular prejudices that hold meat to be a builder of strength.

"Of the three groups compared, the...flesh-eaters showed far less endurance than the abstainers (vegetarians), even when the latter were leading a sedentary life."26
Overall, the average score of the vegetarians was over double the average score of the meat-eaters, even though half of the vegetarians were sedentary people, while all of the meat-eaters tested were athletes. After analyzing all the factors that might have been involved in the results, Fisher concluded that:

"...the difference in endurance between the flesh-eaters and the abstainers (was due) entirely to the difference in their diet.... There is strong evidence that a...non-flesh...diet is conducive to endurance."27
A comparable study was done by Dr. J. Ioteyko of the Academie de Medicine of Paris.28 Dr. Ioteyko compared the endurance of vegetarian and meat-eaters from all walks of life in a variety of tests. The vegetarians averaged two to three times more stamina than the meat-eaters. Even more remarkably, they took only one-fifth the time to recover from exhaustion compared to their meat-eating rivals.

In 1968, a Danish team of researchers tested a group of men on a variety of diets, using a stationary bicycle to measure their strength and endurance. The men were fed a mixed diet of meat and vegetables for a period of time, and then tested on the bicycle. The average time they could pedal before muscle failure was 114 minutes. These same men at a later date were fed a diet high in meat, milk and eggs for a similar period and then re-tested on the bicycles. On the high meat diet, their pedaling time before muscle failure dropped dramatically--to an average of only 57 minutes. Later, these same men were switched to a strictly vegetarian diet, composed of grains, vegetables and fruits, and then tested on the bicycles. The lack f animal products didn't seem to hurt their performance--they pedaled an average of 167 minutes.29

Wherever and whenever tests of this nature have been done, the results have been similar. This does not lend a lot of support to the supposed association of meat with strength and stamina.

Doctors in Belgium systematically compared the number of times vegetarians and meat-eaters could squeeze a grip-meter. The vegetarians won handily with an average of 69, whilst the meat-eaters averaged only 38. As in all other studies which have measured muscle recovery time, here, too, the vegetarians bounced back from fatigue far more rapidly than did the meat-eaters.30

I know of many other studies in the medical literature which report similar findings. But I know of not a single one that has arrived at different results. As a result, I confess, it has gotten rather difficult for me to listen seriously to the meat industry proudly proclaiming "meat gives strength" in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

Robert Sweetgall,of Newark,Delaware,is another fellow just doesn't sit around all day.He is the world's premier ultra distance walker.in the last three years ,Robert has walked a greater distance than the 24,900 mile equatorial circumference of the Earth.

Pierreo Verot hold's the world's record for downhill endurance skiing.he is a vegetarian.

Estelle Gray and Cheryl Marek hold the world's record for cross country tandem cycling.they are vegans.

the world's record for distance butterfly stroke swimming stroke is held jointly by James and jonathan deDonato.Both vegetarians.

toronto canada is the home of a national fitness institute that tests all the top athletes in that country.for a number of years tennis pro Peter Burwash consistently ranked between 50th and 60th.As an experiment,he went vegetarian.One year after making the switch,he was tested at the institue and found have become the highest fitness index of any athlete in any sport in the entire country of Canada.

Meanwhile,across the pacific ocean,the Japanese are evry bit of serious and fanatic about baseball as are Americans.So,in October 1981,when Tatsuro Hirooka took over as manager of a professional team who had finished in last place the previous season,he knew some changes had to be made.But the changes he made were not the one's you would expect.He told the players on the Siebu Lions that meat and other animal foods increase an athletes' suscepctibility to injury,and decrease their athletic performance.Therefore,said the new manager,like it or not,they were all going on a vegetarian diet.The lions took quite a ribbing during the 1982 season.One rival manager sneered they were "only eating weeds" and made some rather derogatory remarks about their masculinity.But the sneerer had to eat his words when the Lions beat his team for for the pacific league chanpionship,and then went on to beat the Chunichi dragons in the equivalent of our World Series.Lest anyone think that was a fluke,the vegetarian Lions came back the next year,and once again trounced the opposition,winning both the League and National championship.

I don't eat meat because I don't like the taste-therefore I don't touch meat substitutes. Over the years I've even got used to avoiding meat products, as Veggie versions of cheese etc are readily available. I don't entirely agree with Vegetarians who feel animals shouldnt be eaten - life on this planet involves a food chain, so bowing to Mother Nature I have no problem with people who choose to eat meat. I too am very healthy - I never see a Doctor, my homeopath treats my common ailments if and when they arise. I walk 2 miles to work and back each day and swim a mile 5 times a week. I've never been sickly due to diet - in fact conditions such a Asthma improved drasically after I switched diets in my teens.
You have to admit that modern society produces and consumes more meat than Mother Nature intended. Human life started with a kill for the clan that would last a few days, diet was substituted with berries, seeds and nuts etc before another kill was made. Nowadays you can eat meat at every meal. The average 6lbs of undigested meat in an atypical US male at death shows that too much meat is NOT a good thing, plus I have to say from an animal welfare point of view many modern farming methods are verging on animal cruelty, with production being the business of the day - not farming - too much supermarket meat ends up uneaten in dumpsters.
Statistically Vegetarians live longer than meat eaters. A healthy diet should be vitamin and mineral balanced - that doesn't decree where the vitimins or minerals come from. Some sources are richer than others but not necessarily better

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