"Ancient vegetarian cultures"--are there any examples?!
But none of these people ever gave an example of one of these so-called "vegetarian cultures."
What are they talking about? Can any of those people give an example or were they just making it up?
(By the way, my wife is from India. That's the closest thing to a "vegetarian culture" that I can think of and I know for a fact they have very clear ideas about what is or is not vegetarian. A lot of Indians aren't vegetarian, though; I'm not talking about that.)
Answers: At least three or four times, people have made statements on this forum that are somewhat puzzling to me. It usually has to do with people arguing that you can rightly call yourself vegetarian and eat fish, poultry, or whatever. The statements went something like this: "Ancient vegetarian cultures have always accepted pesco-vegetarians."
But none of these people ever gave an example of one of these so-called "vegetarian cultures."
What are they talking about? Can any of those people give an example or were they just making it up?
(By the way, my wife is from India. That's the closest thing to a "vegetarian culture" that I can think of and I know for a fact they have very clear ideas about what is or is not vegetarian. A lot of Indians aren't vegetarian, though; I'm not talking about that.)
I know who you speak of. Their ignorance seems so great that it cannot genuine. I think that they are actually veg people that are trying to make omnis look bad or just create tension between the two sides.
"Vegetarian" is a word from the English language. Any supposed ancient cultures did not describe their beliefs or way of living using English, therefore there is no logic in calling them vegetarian or pollo/pesco when according to the ENGLISH language a vegetarian is someone that doesn't eat animals or parts/substances from their bodies. Even if they did speak English, the word is a neologism.
It doesn't matter what other cultures that spoke other languages accepted. They may have had their own word to describe piscivores or bird-eaters but they obviously had no relation to the English word, "vegetarian".
This is hard to answer but we know that Mayan people where big on maize or corn products, but I'm sure they ate meat too, China and many other Asian countries are big on Rice products, but the do supplement them with fish or meat too. Here in the US we eat grains, veggies and the like, but supplement them with meat also. I really don't think supplementing your diet with meat is a big thing. It's not like we eat a four course meal consisting of only meat. But to get back on point, every culture I can think of that was big on a grain, always supplemented their diets with meat when obtainable. Key word when obtainable.
I think all due to their thinking and perception about vegan. But as a Buddhist they become vegan because they want to practice benevolent by not killing animal for food. Most of nutrient from meat including fish could be found in vegy.
My wife and I have been full time vegan for more than 10 years and currently we have 3 children. We found that we are less prone to sickness and we look younger compare to meat eating people of our age.
It would be easier to respond if you could identify which statements you are talking about. But there are plenty of people who say things that aren't true about all sorts of things, so it is not really a surprise to learn that some people might have mistaken ideas about ancient cultures or what it means to be a vegetarian.
this is from Julie Sahni, the author of Classic Indian Vegetarian and Grain Cooking,
ISBN 0688049958:
Reflecting on my sister's wedding so many years later, I am also reminded of the innumerable animals, birds, sea creatures, and all of nature's elements that the Hindus worship as if they were gods.
Many years later I visited the temple for rats (Chooha Devi Mandir) in Rajasthan, and the temple for the monkeys in Hardwar. I observed the festival that celebrates the snake god Cobra (Naag Panchami) by offering him milk and honey in a thali at night, and the festival of the harvest, at which five-course meals are offered to the birds and eleven-course meals to the cattle. These rituals took place before the participants could be served anything to eat.
The HIndu philosophy of peaceful coexistence with nature, the principle of nonviolence, suddenly seemed to fall into place. I realized that this was a culture that respects every living creature equally. What our forefathers established was a form of preservation of God's creatures. Vegetarianism thus came naturally and effortlessly to someone living in India (p 19).
There is an excellent book on this subject:
Vegetarianism: A History
by Colin Spencer
Description
Food writer Colin Spencer discusses those who came to vegetarianism by choice, not necessity, from the religions that preach it such as Hinduism and Seventh Day Adventism to the notable individuals who have practiced it, including Leonardo da Vinci and Gandhi. In this accessible history of vegetarianism, Spencer also explores the psychology of abstention and the ideas that have informed a meat-free diet throughout the ages.
Paperback: 400 pages
Publisher: Four Walls Eight Windows (January 30, 2004)
ISBN-10: 1568582919
ISBN-13: 978-1568582917
----
Well....Jainism and Buddhism....both religion were complete vegetarians..both religion were believe that killing someone just for food is a big sin cause God already provide enough things to eat...in fact Jainism was much strict....according to them, some vegetables are not good to eat cause there were alive germs in that...like potato....still a lot of Jain people don't eat potato and some other vegetables....
I am also a vegetarian and i eat only vegetables, grains, fruits, and milk. eggs, meat are all non vegetarian. food.
One more thing...a particular word for vegetarian in India is..."SHAKAHARI" .....you used a word "ahimsa" i think it is "ahinsa" ...it mean non violence...basically ahinsa does not clarify that a person is vegetarian or not....suppose...you are a non vegi....and at the same time...you don't like to hunt or beat someone or any type of violence...here you are a non vegi but also an "ahinsak" (the person who do never involve in any violent activity)....but when i say, "I am a shakahari"....it means i am a vegetarian and I do never eat meat, eggs, fishes etc.
If you don't mind...I would like to suggest you to learn about Jainism....you will surely get so much help for your research
because it is the most strict religion when it come to eating habits or "Ahinsa".
As far as I know, Buddhism preaches austerity not vegetarianism... meat was expensive and ostentatious so it was eliminated. Fish as cheap so it wasn't.. Japan has a long history of being Buddhists yet their cuisine is known for serving mainly raw fish and seafood...could it be that pure vegetarian cultures did exist but did not survive and left behind no records to show fo their existence?
I've seen this too, and while it might be more interesting if they included a couple of examples, i dont really feel like anything that ancient cultures did either validates or invalidates my diet. If you had good examples of ancient cultures would it change your opinion in regard to pesco-vegetarians in today's world? I would guess not. in the way you framed this you seem to be asking this as a rebuttle against pesco-vegetarians, and not because you would like to know more about ancient cultures and their ties to vegetarianism or pesco-vegetarianism. You have described yourself as a lacto-vegetarian, a practice which most certainly has a historic tie to an ancient culture (brahmanism) as you have alluded to. Is brahmanism the reason that you haven't given up milk? do you feel that this ancient culture justifies the fact that you are not a vegan?
I am sorry if i came off confrontational in this post, i was in a bad mood yesterday and i think i read more confrontation in your post than was there. I think your problem stems from the feeling that vegetarianism is a lifestyle and not a diet. animal rights activism is a lifestyle. vegetarianism is a diet. put your emotions aside and let people describe their diet the way that is easiest. the meat eating public will be confused regardless.
You are right on all your observations.
vegetarians are just that - vegetarians. There is no need to qualify it with hyphonated prefixes.
Eat fish, poultry or beef on a tuesday and you are not a vegetarian.
"Wire and String". I don't think anyone has said you don't exist, vegetarians jsut say you are not vegetarian. What is wrong with that ? If you are tired of people saying you don't exist perhaps you can think for a second about our point of view. The "rest of the world" use the pollo and fish- people as causes to attack: "veggies are hypocrites because they eat fish/chicken etc "
Vegetarians are "tired" of being criticsed for eating fish/chicken or being offered them in resturants.
Lets see what the worlds oldest vegetarian society has to say about it, you know, the one that ACTUALLY defined the word in 1847:
http://www.vegsoc.org/fish
At least its flattering to know that so many people want to be associated with us.
I've queried this in the past and not got a straight answer. I'm looking forward to the answers you get from those who repeatedly pour scorn on veg*ns by citing these unspecified 'ancient cultures'.