Calling yourself a vegan?!
Answers: I asked another question regarding organic milk, and alot of vegans got pretty pissed about me saying I'd still consider myself vegan if I drink organic milk instead of ricemilk becasue my husband would drink organic milk instead of normal milk. all-in-all, it helps cows more than just being a vegan did, because he'll get his from abused cows. I called the organic milk companies (horizon organics and stonyfeild farms) and looked throught the websites, they treat there cows pretty good comparied with normal factory farms. I've decided just not to drink any milk form to save us the money, but is a vegan lable more important that doing whats best for the cow? & for the vegans who think they are vegan, what about the bread, corn, and soy you use? those crops killl wildlife, bunnies, mice, snakes, turtles, etc. in the fields get run-over by the mechines, and alot of farmers intentionaly kil fox, cayotes, etc. and what about nori than some vegans eat? crused sea-creatures are in it.
Don't take my answer the wrong way, I am in no way angry or upset, I just find that when I write my tone comes through as confrontational sometimes. I didn't answer your previous question but I did read it... I just didn't feel like typing a lot. Oh well, looks like I'll do it this time around. I just wanted to clarify that I'm only trying to inform you, not criticize or attack you.
Vegans won't drink milk, period. Human beings don't need milk past infancy - especially another animal's breast milk! You don't have to drink the milk your husband buys, or you can and just call yourself a vegetarian. Vegan is a very strongly defined term - someone that does not participate in animal cruelty and exploitation for profit in any way.
Dairy is probably worse than eating meat in my opinion because not only do our bodies not NEED milk - we absolutely do not need to consume ANY creature's breast milk past weaning - but we still INSIST that we need to drink it. We allow our government to brainwash into thinking we need 3 cups of breastmilk as grown adult mammals! It's ludicrous. We continue to abuse and exploit female cows and we continue to force them to produce gallons of breastmilk, and then we prevent them from using their own breastmilk to feed their young, and we further on slaughter them for meat anyway once they are no longer profitable - aka too old to make milk - that is sick.
You'd be surprised, organic dairies are hardly better than normal ones. Horizon farms has received multiple complains that they have violated organic guidelines, that I have even seen mainstream news articles about. Besides, a cow cannot produce milk without being pregnant at least once - and usually their child is sold for veal because the MOMENT her milk comes in she is needed for profit, profit, profit. There is a quote, " There is a little piece of veal in every glass of milk you drink". That is absolutely true.
As for animals dying in the wild because of our farming practices? At least those animals lived their entire life in the wild, they have not been manipulated for profit and kept in our captivity just so we could further pervert nature and further take all we can from them profit-wise. I would consider dying because of farming methods little different than if they had another accident - when someone is in the wrong place in the wrong time - like a fox happens to get caught by a grain combine. Besides, farming methods have become a lot more 'clean' and efficient.
I have answered another question, I will link it here, it was the same question you ask here - "What about other animals that vegans might inadvertently have in their food/killed/whatever"
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;...
Here is another question, like yours, that is about what is wrong with dairy anyway. If you really cared about cows, if you really cared about animals, you should be interested in reading about this.
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;...
Frankly, as a vegan I intend to contribute as little to animal suffering as possible. Some things are absolutely out of my power - how can I possibly help it if I accidentally step on an ant? How can I possibly help it if a rabbit died for my grain products? However, the cruelty I CAN avoid participating in, I will. Using these unavoidable circumstances as an EXCUSE to participate in willingly-chosen, easily avoidable animal exploitation (dairy!) is wrong.
you are a vegan only if you don't consume any animal or animal products, regardless of being organic or not.
you are called a lacto-vegetarian if you don't eat meat, fish, or eggs, but you drink milk.
I understand your consternation, I really do.
I was suppose to marry someone that switched from vegetarian to vegan - yet he still ate foods that had animal products within them, drank soda products that are known to have animal products within them, used shampoo and conditioner that was tested on animals - even tried to quit smoking with the patches and the chewing gum that they sell which is all tested on animals and most def. has products within that are not 'vegan'.
What I believe that you are running into is many people that live one life online and another when not online. I have met very few honest to goodness 'vegans' in real life - and they made ever concession that they could to the extreme to keep the core belief behind such a stand.
The one person that I talk to from India that lives now here in the United States and is vegan, totally avoids all plastics as much as possible since they have been living within the United States. They refuse the plastic contacts and wear glasses with metal frames - because plastic is a fossil based material, thus from animals - - to the point of having the leather seats removed from the BMW that they bought and having cloth seats put in (which I thought rather extreme myself - not to mention that it effects the value of the car). They get their shoes sent over from India from family and they are not animal based at all, nor do that have any plastic.
I personally agree with you that I totally support the positive changes that the milk companies that you name have made improvements in the treatment of animals - that really is what it is all about. That more can be done - of course. But is it going to happen overnight - no.
I do soy milk products. I happen to like Silk products and the Oh So Delicious ice cream products. I also have a grand daughter that is allergic to milk - so having things around that she can eat is something that I will always do - because I care and love her and want to make sure that she has anything that she needs or wants.
Personal opinion - forget about titles and go about finding out what is best for you. Eat a healthy well balanced diet that has variety within it and that meets all the needs that you and your family have.
After you find that place - then if you want to see what title best fits you - go for it - if such is really all that important for you.
For me - a title is a title. Seen too many make claims to titles that lied about it - so it no longer really has any meaning to me. Heck - this is the INTERNET! How would ANYONE really know if what the other person is writing to them is really 'true' or a 'lie' about any thing that they write anyway??
Of course - just my opinion - and I know that there will be those that disagree.
I looked at your other question and I think people just wanted to point out that you would no longer be a vegan if you drink the organic milk. That is not a bad thing - you have to live by your own conscience and within your means.
It is important to get the terminology right because meat eaters get confused if we don't. I don't want to have to keep explaining to people exactly what I eat and what I don't because they have said "Oh, I know a vegetarian who eats sausages"! Then I have to explain to them that that person is not vegetarian.
I don't really understand how it will save money not buying two kinds of milk, unless you mean that if you buy the larger container you may save a few pennies. You are doing the best you can so don't worry about it. I would buy everything organic and free trade if I could afford to
I don't understand your reasoning. How exactly is it that crops or fruit orchards don't infringe on animal habitats just because they are local?
Also, You answered your own question. Is a label more important than what is best as you say. Well, it seems to be as you are clearly not a vegan by definition and still use the label.
It is an is/isn't definiton. You either fit or you don't, there's no room for interpretation on definitions. They do exactly what they are supposed to do; define.
Milk-drinking vegan people do not exist.
If the label isn't important, stop using it.
You have failed to respond to the questions that I provided in my last answer:
What do organic dairies do with male calves? How long are they allowed to nurse their young? What happens to cows that have decreasing milk production?
Organic dairies do not exist to help animals. They exist to make money.
Exploiting animals isn't helping them just because they are producing a product of a higher quality.
I don't care if you drink milk or not, it's just not vegan. Let's all be clear on that.
PS - I don't call myself "a vegan". I'm a person that is vegan.
How is it better to get milk from formerly abused cows than it is to not get milk at all? You are not benefitting the cow in any way; it would be better for those cows to have their calves drink their milk. That's what it's for. If more people went vegan, the demand for dairy would be reduced and fewer cows would have to suffer. I agree that IF you're going to drink milk, you should be sourcing it from dairies that keep their cows in more humane conditions. But IF you are going to drink animal milk at all (or use any animal ingredient) you cannot call yourself a vegan. At that point you are vegetarian. Perhaps people weren't opposed to your drinking milk, but opposed to you intentionally misusing the word vegan. It's really not a matter of whether the label is more important than your actions - you have to act according to your principles. If your principles allow you to use animal products, then you're simply not vegan and you shouldn't try to adopt the label.
don't worry about lables... they are just used by society so they can group people together, so they can try to understand the people they control
It is a matter of definitions.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegan
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/vegan
As you can see, the word 'vegan' has one single meaning and it is "A vegetarian who eats plant products only, especially one who uses no products derived from animals, as fur or leather."
The definition doesn't say anything about "why".
There are plenty of reasons why people chose veganism and animal abusement at farms and factories is just one but not at all the most important.
Veganism started long before the current concern for animal abusement.
Most vegans - included me - are simply because we love animals and don't believe they're meant to be used as food or to produce food for humans. We like the way our body behaves without animal products... If I drink a glass of animal milk I see a difference in my body the next morning...
Some are vegan for religious reasons, some simply don't like meat's taste and texture, etc....
So the reason why you chose veganism is not the point...
To call yourself vegan you must follow the definition...
You can take decisions that you consider are "better" than veganism.... if you think drinking organic milk makes you a better human or makes more sense... then go for it.... but just don't use the word 'vegan' because that means something different.
*update*
Oh, and the reason why vegans don't drink milk, traditionally, is not for the way cows are treated, the reason is because we think cow milk is good for baby cows, goat milk is good for baby goats and so on.... human milk is for baby humans...