What about the issue of animals indirectly dying from farming plant matter?!
My mother has a farm of sorts and one year had her fields cut back (which needs to be done regardless of planting else it becomes thickets, etc) to plant alfalfa!. She felt bad about the results as many baby birds and bunnies died, not to mention countless numbers of insects!.
I strive to live out a vegan lifestyle as much as the next vegan but it is a good point that some meat eaters have raise about the indirect killings that occur by farming plant matter!.
I do not wish to go back to eating animal based products but at the same time it would be hypocritical of the vegetarian community not to address this very real problem and to come up with viable solutions!.Www@FoodAQ@Com
I strive to live out a vegan lifestyle as much as the next vegan but it is a good point that some meat eaters have raise about the indirect killings that occur by farming plant matter!.
I do not wish to go back to eating animal based products but at the same time it would be hypocritical of the vegetarian community not to address this very real problem and to come up with viable solutions!.Www@FoodAQ@Com
Answers:
If you plant in a Permaculture way you do not clear fields!. You do not monocrop, you build soil, you use nature's balancing systems not pesticides, you include animals to free range within that system, you work in harmony with nature, not against it!. You walk lightly on the earth and only use machinery at the start of the design to do the earth works!. You do not dig soil, when you harvest the plant you cut it slightly above soil level and leave the root in the soil to do it's work along with the mulch!. So the answer is grow your own food and fuel using the Permaculture method!.Www@FoodAQ@Com
Yep it's a real issue as far as I'm concerned!. They also have rat traps in any food storage area and most commercial production companies!.
I worked for a bread factory for a while and although there were no animal products(save honey) they had mouse traps every forty feet along the outside wall!. We had one infestation of mice in the uniform room and they killed over 50 of them before the traps finally went empty!.
also there is the whole pesticide issue with plants including organic farmers using BTH fungus to kill butterflies and moths!.Www@FoodAQ@Com
I worked for a bread factory for a while and although there were no animal products(save honey) they had mouse traps every forty feet along the outside wall!. We had one infestation of mice in the uniform room and they killed over 50 of them before the traps finally went empty!.
also there is the whole pesticide issue with plants including organic farmers using BTH fungus to kill butterflies and moths!.Www@FoodAQ@Com
I don't know it is a question of vegan's v meat eaters!.
it is more of alternative modified gm foods
these should not run off into other crops as this is the problem hidden from the public!
and why animals become sick or die!.
When in doubt leave it out!.!.!.!.!.!.!.!.not wait for disaster to strike, then blame everything else for a whyle, and if that fails, then make some cover up!.
No matter what , animals insects should not be dying at human/s expense in such big numbers! hmmmmmm!?Www@FoodAQ@Com
it is more of alternative modified gm foods
these should not run off into other crops as this is the problem hidden from the public!
and why animals become sick or die!.
When in doubt leave it out!.!.!.!.!.!.!.!.not wait for disaster to strike, then blame everything else for a whyle, and if that fails, then make some cover up!.
No matter what , animals insects should not be dying at human/s expense in such big numbers! hmmmmmm!?Www@FoodAQ@Com
To reiterate what others have said, being vegan is about minimizing suffering and avoiding products which exploit animals!. The unfortunate creatures killed during harvesting are certainly not exploited--they are merely in the right place at the wrong time!. And since animals need to eat between 5 and 15 pounds of grain to produce a pound of edible flesh, far more animals are killed for an omnivorous diet--including the ones who are eaten--than are killed for a vegan diet!.
I don't know if it meat eaters raising that point is really a good point or a game of gotcha to justify their meat consumption!.Www@FoodAQ@Com
I don't know if it meat eaters raising that point is really a good point or a game of gotcha to justify their meat consumption!.Www@FoodAQ@Com
For a start, fields should not be cut back during ground bird nesting seasons - any decent farmer will know that and in most countries the agri-rules support this position by banning ground and hedgerow clearing during certain months!. For example, in the UK i know i cannot cut hawthorn hedgerows between March and August because of nesting birds!. I have similar rules for clearing margins and stubble due to ground birds such a pheasants!.
relatively few animals die during land work, the machinery sends them to cover!.
I own some land and believe me, its not like the killing fields when i walk across them, i think the last time i saw a dead animal that we killed because of the farming it was a shrew, spring 2 years ago - that pales into insignificance compared to if i'd eaten meat in all that time!. I have no doubt I've killed more animals, but its not the same as caging a pig up in a barn and bolting it between the eyes when its 2 years old!. and then repeat that for the other 5,000 pigs in the same barn!. Its a completely different level of impact!.
It all relates to intent!. If i used a stealth tractor and crept into the field to take the animals by surprise, you'd have a point!.
Animals die because i'm alive, i minimise that impact where possible!. I can live with that!.Www@FoodAQ@Com
relatively few animals die during land work, the machinery sends them to cover!.
I own some land and believe me, its not like the killing fields when i walk across them, i think the last time i saw a dead animal that we killed because of the farming it was a shrew, spring 2 years ago - that pales into insignificance compared to if i'd eaten meat in all that time!. I have no doubt I've killed more animals, but its not the same as caging a pig up in a barn and bolting it between the eyes when its 2 years old!. and then repeat that for the other 5,000 pigs in the same barn!. Its a completely different level of impact!.
It all relates to intent!. If i used a stealth tractor and crept into the field to take the animals by surprise, you'd have a point!.
Animals die because i'm alive, i minimise that impact where possible!. I can live with that!.Www@FoodAQ@Com
I really like this response to the issue of animals being killed when crops are harvested:
http://ar!.vegnews!.org/harvesting_crops!.h!.!.!.
"When our society takes the concept of animal rights seriously, we will have to reform the way in which we harvest crops so as to try to reduce the number of animals killed!. However, this is not going to occur as long as our society continues to view animals as just a food source!."
"!.!.!.far more animals are killed during the cultivation of crops for a meat based diet!. This is because plants have to be fed to the livestock, and only a small fraction of the food which an animal eats is converted into meat for human consumption!. Far fewer animals would be killed during the cultivation of crops if humans ate these crops directly, instead of feeding to these crops to livestock!."
"Ultimately, regardless of how hard we try to avoid it, some animals are always going to be accidentally killed in the course of human events!. This is the same way in which, regardless of how hard we try, some people will always die in car accidents!. However, the fact that we might accidentally run someone over with our car does not imply that it is ok to run them over on purpose!."
It's impossible to be 100% cruelty-free, and the purpose of a vegan diet isn't to be somehow pure or perfect!. As Hollywood said, animals will always be killed as we go about our daily lives!. Currently the vast majority of people in our society have no problem eating the actual leg of a chicken!. Unintentional animal deaths would probably be even less of a concern than factory farming!.!.!.
also, farmed animals have to eat up to 16 pounds of plants to convert them into 1 pound of meat!. Given the enormous amount of grain that is fed to livestock, it seems that promoting vegetarianism would be one of the most effective ways of reducing the number of animals that are killed during crop harvesting!.Www@FoodAQ@Com
http://ar!.vegnews!.org/harvesting_crops!.h!.!.!.
"When our society takes the concept of animal rights seriously, we will have to reform the way in which we harvest crops so as to try to reduce the number of animals killed!. However, this is not going to occur as long as our society continues to view animals as just a food source!."
"!.!.!.far more animals are killed during the cultivation of crops for a meat based diet!. This is because plants have to be fed to the livestock, and only a small fraction of the food which an animal eats is converted into meat for human consumption!. Far fewer animals would be killed during the cultivation of crops if humans ate these crops directly, instead of feeding to these crops to livestock!."
"Ultimately, regardless of how hard we try to avoid it, some animals are always going to be accidentally killed in the course of human events!. This is the same way in which, regardless of how hard we try, some people will always die in car accidents!. However, the fact that we might accidentally run someone over with our car does not imply that it is ok to run them over on purpose!."
It's impossible to be 100% cruelty-free, and the purpose of a vegan diet isn't to be somehow pure or perfect!. As Hollywood said, animals will always be killed as we go about our daily lives!. Currently the vast majority of people in our society have no problem eating the actual leg of a chicken!. Unintentional animal deaths would probably be even less of a concern than factory farming!.!.!.
also, farmed animals have to eat up to 16 pounds of plants to convert them into 1 pound of meat!. Given the enormous amount of grain that is fed to livestock, it seems that promoting vegetarianism would be one of the most effective ways of reducing the number of animals that are killed during crop harvesting!.Www@FoodAQ@Com
GREAT answer, hollywood!.
Animals will always be harming just by us living on this planet!. I'm a vegetarian because I want to do something to help!.!.!.!.not to be perfect!. Every time we drive a car we kill bugs on the windshield!.!.!.!.!.we squish ants when we walk in the grass!.!.!.!.!.we are constantly killing microbial life in literally everything we do!.
Yes, animals will die as a result of modern farming, but it is far less than the number of animals dying in factory farms!. Is it still upsetting!? Of course!. But unless you're buying your veggies from the Amish (who don't use modern equipment) it's an unfortunate occurance that is unintentional!.Www@FoodAQ@Com
Animals will always be harming just by us living on this planet!. I'm a vegetarian because I want to do something to help!.!.!.!.not to be perfect!. Every time we drive a car we kill bugs on the windshield!.!.!.!.!.we squish ants when we walk in the grass!.!.!.!.!.we are constantly killing microbial life in literally everything we do!.
Yes, animals will die as a result of modern farming, but it is far less than the number of animals dying in factory farms!. Is it still upsetting!? Of course!. But unless you're buying your veggies from the Amish (who don't use modern equipment) it's an unfortunate occurance that is unintentional!.Www@FoodAQ@Com
As far as I know, a veg*n lifestyle is about *minimising* animal suffering as much as possible!.
Vegetarians and vegans recognise that whilst animal suffering cannot be eliminated, we can *significantly* reduce suffering by following a veg*n diet!.
The harvesting of vegetables, soybeans and other plant foods, will inevitably cause some form of suffering in some shape or form, whether that be insects getting crushed, bunnies getting killed, etc!. In no way do veg*ns advocate taking an ignorant approach!.
I don't like to witness any animal suffer (or any human either) but we can only do so much, and it's a sad fact of life that there always will be something harmed in the process of obtaining what you desire!.Www@FoodAQ@Com
Vegetarians and vegans recognise that whilst animal suffering cannot be eliminated, we can *significantly* reduce suffering by following a veg*n diet!.
The harvesting of vegetables, soybeans and other plant foods, will inevitably cause some form of suffering in some shape or form, whether that be insects getting crushed, bunnies getting killed, etc!. In no way do veg*ns advocate taking an ignorant approach!.
I don't like to witness any animal suffer (or any human either) but we can only do so much, and it's a sad fact of life that there always will be something harmed in the process of obtaining what you desire!.Www@FoodAQ@Com