If animals could talk would people be as inclined to eat them?!
Apparently some do even on our level!. When my moms parrots want water they say water and when you leave the house the say goodbye!. We they see a cat they'll jokingly say "here kitty kitty kitty!." This is no joke!. My mother's birds can talk!. When she is mad at them or they are mad at another bird being noisy they will say, "bad bird! bad bird!"
also there are gorillas that can have a conversation with you in sign language!. Koko has been I!.Q!. tested between 70 and 90 with human average being 98!.
http://www!.koko!.org/world/signlanguage!.h!.!.!.
Think of all the dolphin, otter, whale, elephant, tiger and other shows in which animals do amazing things via some training!. Without more intelligence than many people recognize they would not be able to do some of these amazing feats!.Www@FoodAQ@Com
also there are gorillas that can have a conversation with you in sign language!. Koko has been I!.Q!. tested between 70 and 90 with human average being 98!.
http://www!.koko!.org/world/signlanguage!.h!.!.!.
Think of all the dolphin, otter, whale, elephant, tiger and other shows in which animals do amazing things via some training!. Without more intelligence than many people recognize they would not be able to do some of these amazing feats!.Www@FoodAQ@Com
Answers:
I think it wouldn't make a difference!.
But there's so many animals that can talk! I've seen an old crow at the local Humane Society shelter that can speak, believe it or not!. For the first 5-10 minutes I thought the person that came with me was pulling one on me, and maybe was just a really amazing ventriloquist!. But apparently crows are insanely intelligent and can talk just like parrots!
The only reason gorillas and other monkeys can't talk is because their vocal chords are very different from ours!. But as you said, they are very literate in sound language, many of which can outperform a human child in terms of language acquisition, comprehension, etc!.
While a part of me wants to believe that people wouldn't want to slaughter a cow if the cow were screaming in horror and beginning for it's life, another part of me realizes it's highly unlikely even then!. Any excuse is good enough, I've come to bitterly realize!. Most animals that humans eat are incredibly intelligent, and there is no question about it that the animals understand and feel at a level that (to me, anyway) the conditions they are raised in and slaughtered in (and for the ultimate goal being some lumpy hamburger at a BBQ joint) are just unacceptable, period!.
What amazes me is the fact that people argue that intelligence is a good enough reason to kill and eat animals - "They're dumb, not as smart as we are, so let's eat them"!. The rationale is sick to me because frankly, if I were to use that rationale (with the IQ results I have) I would probably have the privilege of tucking into most of the people I meet!. Gross!.
Besides, there are people born with lower IQ's than gorillas like Koko, people that can't speak or communicate, but it's unethical to even suggest they deserve to be raised and then devoured - disabled people, people that aren't given opportunities to learn!. A famous case of hideous child abuse - a girl named Genie - was tied to a potty chair for the first thirteen years of her life and never managed to learn to speak or interact, she was completely primitive!. When she was freed, she never learned to walk properly (she could only lurch around like an ape) and never learned to speak - human beings tend to lose the ability to learn to speak around 3 years of age if they are not introduced to it early enough!. Parts of our brain just die off and cannot be shaped past a certain age!.
The animals raised for consumption are much the same - while spoiled little piglets like my aunt's pot bellied pig respond to commands and can perform tricks that outshine any dog out there, the ones that are abused and confined their whole lives in a factory farm setting are far less intelligent or easy to sympathize with - but that's because they never get the opportunity to!. Pigs are brilliant animals, one of the smartest on the face of this earth, with cognitive capability like that of a 3 year old child - many have been able to play video games, and have shown the ability to use imagination and communication!. Not just trained responses but actual free thought!.
However, because of the humiliating and crude conditions animals for consumption are raised in, even if the animal were capable to talk, they would never speak or reach the level of dignity and natural majesty most animals do!. As I said, the case of Genie comes to mind, who was a human being and a woman as much as I am, but because of the conditions she was raised in she was never able to achieve her potential!.
Genie's story
http://www!.english!.iup!.edu/mmwimson/Syll!.!.!.
I did an enormous study about Genie my first year of college, and people's reactions to her and how she developed continue to fascinate me and shape how I see other people and animals!. Where do we draw the line between what is defined as primitive and evolved, animal and savage or human and intelligent!?
Can some people really be so dense as to believe that their own intelligence is a result solely of being a human being and that other animals are sub par!? - Clearly most of what we have in our heads as adults is because of how we were raised and shaped and (as you illustrated) animals like Koko can easily match a human being!. Intelligence and just having the basic right to live are not purely a human right, it's not something you are born with, it's acquired with time and through care, we are all animals in the end!.Www@FoodAQ@Com
But there's so many animals that can talk! I've seen an old crow at the local Humane Society shelter that can speak, believe it or not!. For the first 5-10 minutes I thought the person that came with me was pulling one on me, and maybe was just a really amazing ventriloquist!. But apparently crows are insanely intelligent and can talk just like parrots!
The only reason gorillas and other monkeys can't talk is because their vocal chords are very different from ours!. But as you said, they are very literate in sound language, many of which can outperform a human child in terms of language acquisition, comprehension, etc!.
While a part of me wants to believe that people wouldn't want to slaughter a cow if the cow were screaming in horror and beginning for it's life, another part of me realizes it's highly unlikely even then!. Any excuse is good enough, I've come to bitterly realize!. Most animals that humans eat are incredibly intelligent, and there is no question about it that the animals understand and feel at a level that (to me, anyway) the conditions they are raised in and slaughtered in (and for the ultimate goal being some lumpy hamburger at a BBQ joint) are just unacceptable, period!.
What amazes me is the fact that people argue that intelligence is a good enough reason to kill and eat animals - "They're dumb, not as smart as we are, so let's eat them"!. The rationale is sick to me because frankly, if I were to use that rationale (with the IQ results I have) I would probably have the privilege of tucking into most of the people I meet!. Gross!.
Besides, there are people born with lower IQ's than gorillas like Koko, people that can't speak or communicate, but it's unethical to even suggest they deserve to be raised and then devoured - disabled people, people that aren't given opportunities to learn!. A famous case of hideous child abuse - a girl named Genie - was tied to a potty chair for the first thirteen years of her life and never managed to learn to speak or interact, she was completely primitive!. When she was freed, she never learned to walk properly (she could only lurch around like an ape) and never learned to speak - human beings tend to lose the ability to learn to speak around 3 years of age if they are not introduced to it early enough!. Parts of our brain just die off and cannot be shaped past a certain age!.
The animals raised for consumption are much the same - while spoiled little piglets like my aunt's pot bellied pig respond to commands and can perform tricks that outshine any dog out there, the ones that are abused and confined their whole lives in a factory farm setting are far less intelligent or easy to sympathize with - but that's because they never get the opportunity to!. Pigs are brilliant animals, one of the smartest on the face of this earth, with cognitive capability like that of a 3 year old child - many have been able to play video games, and have shown the ability to use imagination and communication!. Not just trained responses but actual free thought!.
However, because of the humiliating and crude conditions animals for consumption are raised in, even if the animal were capable to talk, they would never speak or reach the level of dignity and natural majesty most animals do!. As I said, the case of Genie comes to mind, who was a human being and a woman as much as I am, but because of the conditions she was raised in she was never able to achieve her potential!.
Genie's story
http://www!.english!.iup!.edu/mmwimson/Syll!.!.!.
I did an enormous study about Genie my first year of college, and people's reactions to her and how she developed continue to fascinate me and shape how I see other people and animals!. Where do we draw the line between what is defined as primitive and evolved, animal and savage or human and intelligent!?
Can some people really be so dense as to believe that their own intelligence is a result solely of being a human being and that other animals are sub par!? - Clearly most of what we have in our heads as adults is because of how we were raised and shaped and (as you illustrated) animals like Koko can easily match a human being!. Intelligence and just having the basic right to live are not purely a human right, it's not something you are born with, it's acquired with time and through care, we are all animals in the end!.Www@FoodAQ@Com
People are very cold when it comes to eating meat!. every the greatest animal lovers don't want to hear what happens in a slaughterhouse!. Pigs are every bit as intelligent as dogs, but try telling that to the dog owner who feeds leftover bacon to his dog!. Or try telling the equestrian who loves a hamburger medium rare!.Www@FoodAQ@Com
unfortunetly people are so out of touch with their nature they wouldn't even know! IE; this kid was surprised when saw a chicken i a farm and said to his mom : i didn't know chickens have heads! she only saw them in the meat markets w/o heads! peaceWww@FoodAQ@Com
Wow that's amazing! Animals are so intelligent, it's a shame that people treat them with such disrespect!.
I think people WOULD stop eating animals if they somehow learned how to talk!. That would be way too weird! haha :)Www@FoodAQ@Com
I think people WOULD stop eating animals if they somehow learned how to talk!. That would be way too weird! haha :)Www@FoodAQ@Com
Wow! That is amazing!!
I think a lot of people still would; (most) People don't see the animals anyway, just when they are packaged at the supermarket!.Www@FoodAQ@Com
I think a lot of people still would; (most) People don't see the animals anyway, just when they are packaged at the supermarket!.Www@FoodAQ@Com
They do all talk (communicate), but we don't understand them, yet!. If we could understand them all it would make eating them harder I'd think!.Www@FoodAQ@Com
Hey so if being edible is based on intelligence does that mean we can start eating Republicans!?
On a serious note - I agree that most consumers are disenfranchised from their meal!. We simply have no clue where or how it's obtained!.!.!. or we do, but we refuse or simply can't fathom!.!.!.
I thought about veal last night!.!.!. and could I actually go through with it on my ranch (OK, I'm dreaming about the future)!. I dunno!.
Well maybe chickens!.!.!. again I dunno - I mean those would be my chickens - I got to know them!. Please don't hate me but the unfertalized eggs I would consider fair game!. Same for cows milk!. Just not sure I could kill the fatted calf myself - so I think I'll avoid eating that!.
I think if every person had to come face to face with their meal at least once - i!.e!. actually take a knife and do the dirty work on a full grown cow for example - well eating habits might change!
That said there are still some hunters left who hunt for sustenance and prep their own meat!. I think we gotta let them be!.!.!. but the dorks who go out drink a bunch of beer and wound countless animals!.!.!. or actually bag one and then strap it to their hood and take it to "a guy" - well are they hunters or recreational killers!?Www@FoodAQ@Com
On a serious note - I agree that most consumers are disenfranchised from their meal!. We simply have no clue where or how it's obtained!.!.!. or we do, but we refuse or simply can't fathom!.!.!.
I thought about veal last night!.!.!. and could I actually go through with it on my ranch (OK, I'm dreaming about the future)!. I dunno!.
Well maybe chickens!.!.!. again I dunno - I mean those would be my chickens - I got to know them!. Please don't hate me but the unfertalized eggs I would consider fair game!. Same for cows milk!. Just not sure I could kill the fatted calf myself - so I think I'll avoid eating that!.
I think if every person had to come face to face with their meal at least once - i!.e!. actually take a knife and do the dirty work on a full grown cow for example - well eating habits might change!
That said there are still some hunters left who hunt for sustenance and prep their own meat!. I think we gotta let them be!.!.!. but the dorks who go out drink a bunch of beer and wound countless animals!.!.!. or actually bag one and then strap it to their hood and take it to "a guy" - well are they hunters or recreational killers!?Www@FoodAQ@Com
I think it is hard for people to kill anything that they have given a name to but -- and it is a big but -- some people still do!. Some people still kill their own spouses and children!. So what is the deterrent!? Surely it isn't the ability to speak!. I think the deterrent is a tender heart, a conscience that is alive and well, and a compassionate sense of the connectedness of all life, in addition to a healthy dose of humility!. Talking cows, pigs, chickens!? They talk all the time but few people are listening!. There is a huge disconnect between the thing -- the slab of meat in a package or on the plate -- and a living breathing, conscious entity!. If people had to kill their own animals for dinner, and they could say "Stop! Please don't kill me!" or "If you kill me to eat me, I'll only have to come back and kill you to eat you in another life!" then consumption might be lower, but even then the hubris of human kind and its blood lust and ego structure would not be totally in check!. Would it!? Seriously, what do you think!?Www@FoodAQ@Com
Fascinating question!. As a vegetarian I long ago decided that I could sustain myself without including meat in my diet!. But you've touched upon a deeper topic, how we view ourselves in relation to the other creatures of the world!. Years ago we began to rely on domestic pets as a matter of self-interest!. Later that morphed and evolved into a cottage industry, where some treat their animals as surrogate children, others simply as animal members of the family, still others as mere "pets!." In any case, you wouldn't eat a member of the family, obviously!
But I would think that if animals could talk, many people wouldn't have the guts to eat them!. Some would, because of the way they see themselves as elevated from the other creatures of the earth!.
No doubt many species are far more intelligent than some people give them credit for!. We brought a rescue dog into our home a few months ago, a German-Shepherd mix, and she is the most intelligent dog I've ever had!. It's a bit eerie sometimes!. I love watching her think!.
I believe that people should be more respectful of all life on this planet, whether the species can communicate verbally or otherwise!.Www@FoodAQ@Com
But I would think that if animals could talk, many people wouldn't have the guts to eat them!. Some would, because of the way they see themselves as elevated from the other creatures of the earth!.
No doubt many species are far more intelligent than some people give them credit for!. We brought a rescue dog into our home a few months ago, a German-Shepherd mix, and she is the most intelligent dog I've ever had!. It's a bit eerie sometimes!. I love watching her think!.
I believe that people should be more respectful of all life on this planet, whether the species can communicate verbally or otherwise!.Www@FoodAQ@Com
i think animals do talk!.!.!.!.!.but they do it through body language!. my dad studies this with horses and uses this as a training method!. by imitating their posture and other movements they can be trained without violence or aggression!. it's really a very beautiful thing!.
if animals could speak to us in a way that were more obvious to most, i don't think people would eat them!. for some reason people use the ability to talk as an indication of intelligence!.!.!.!.!.!.we're a pretty sad species if we're the only ones that can't see that language is more than speech!.Www@FoodAQ@Com
if animals could speak to us in a way that were more obvious to most, i don't think people would eat them!. for some reason people use the ability to talk as an indication of intelligence!.!.!.!.!.!.we're a pretty sad species if we're the only ones that can't see that language is more than speech!.Www@FoodAQ@Com
you are already proving my point
i was gonna say Animals can talk !.most people just don`t understand them !.
Ask any owner who loves his pets ,he knows exactly what they want when they want something
Some Animals like Orcas and Dolphins even seem to read your mind
had a girlfriend once who worked with Dolphins and they always knew what trick she was thinking off and lined up before any command was given!.
Animals even talk other animals languages ,like many birds who mimic other animals ,
and the universal body language !.which makes an Elephant understand a gifraffe!.
If you have ever watched a group of baboons you quickly realize that they got a lot to say to each other ,
Popular experiments with primates have shown the extent of what we can teach Chimps ,to form sentences with blocks etc !.Making them learn ANOTHER form of communication
But few people have tried to learn THEIR language!.Making US learn!.Like the girl who lived with the gorillas who bothered to try and understand THEM!.
Cats and dogs are also dual lingual !.Which is very distinct
they have a different way of saying the same thing to Humans then to each other!.
No one who has worked a lot with animals will deny that they can talk ,
Other people do not understand the language or are to blind or deaf to notice it ,
so who is the stupid one in this case!?!?!?!?
But still people will eat them because of an ancient racism that has been programmed into our cultures ,this artificial superiority complex!.
quote
Animals do not feel pain, have emotions ,are inferior creatures to People so therefore have no rights and cannot be owners of land!.
and Natives are only a step away from that,
Imagine if they did ,we would have to behave responsible with Nature ,be confined to far less space and have to watch our numbers !.We would be subject to the LAWS of nature instead of only to the laws of god or man (same thing)
People still hunt Indigenous people in Brazil or Borneo,
And we kill each other for what we think or what we have ,in Anger or for fun!.
Without eating the kill,which in fact is worse ,
Because killing for food is acceptable whilst killing for gain ,pleasure is immoral!.
Animals do NOT DO Usually THAT,at least not many
I know a cougar can kill 30 sheep in a night for fun but it is rare ,and yes animals kill for territory ,also in Anger or hate like the hyenas killing lion cubs with out eating them ,and the lions do the same ,they hate each other!.Again this is rare
or kill in defense or to protect their young,
And Blessbuck and other Antelope or deer types and many other Animals kill for superiority over the females,this is usual
Pleasure or gain is rare,And so is religion these are our main reasons
that is funny all the cows Mooing may mean-- dont eat me ,and nobody listens or understands !.
Any way at the end of the day all of Nature is eat or be eaten
and with death be eaten anyway!.
the only problem as far as i can compute is that we are overstepping the equilibrium !.we are not consuming in a sustainable manner ,which DOES happen in natural eco systems!.
And we treat Animals like dirt ,If you have seen Earthlings that becomes very clearWww@FoodAQ@Com
i was gonna say Animals can talk !.most people just don`t understand them !.
Ask any owner who loves his pets ,he knows exactly what they want when they want something
Some Animals like Orcas and Dolphins even seem to read your mind
had a girlfriend once who worked with Dolphins and they always knew what trick she was thinking off and lined up before any command was given!.
Animals even talk other animals languages ,like many birds who mimic other animals ,
and the universal body language !.which makes an Elephant understand a gifraffe!.
If you have ever watched a group of baboons you quickly realize that they got a lot to say to each other ,
Popular experiments with primates have shown the extent of what we can teach Chimps ,to form sentences with blocks etc !.Making them learn ANOTHER form of communication
But few people have tried to learn THEIR language!.Making US learn!.Like the girl who lived with the gorillas who bothered to try and understand THEM!.
Cats and dogs are also dual lingual !.Which is very distinct
they have a different way of saying the same thing to Humans then to each other!.
No one who has worked a lot with animals will deny that they can talk ,
Other people do not understand the language or are to blind or deaf to notice it ,
so who is the stupid one in this case!?!?!?!?
But still people will eat them because of an ancient racism that has been programmed into our cultures ,this artificial superiority complex!.
quote
Animals do not feel pain, have emotions ,are inferior creatures to People so therefore have no rights and cannot be owners of land!.
and Natives are only a step away from that,
Imagine if they did ,we would have to behave responsible with Nature ,be confined to far less space and have to watch our numbers !.We would be subject to the LAWS of nature instead of only to the laws of god or man (same thing)
People still hunt Indigenous people in Brazil or Borneo,
And we kill each other for what we think or what we have ,in Anger or for fun!.
Without eating the kill,which in fact is worse ,
Because killing for food is acceptable whilst killing for gain ,pleasure is immoral!.
Animals do NOT DO Usually THAT,at least not many
I know a cougar can kill 30 sheep in a night for fun but it is rare ,and yes animals kill for territory ,also in Anger or hate like the hyenas killing lion cubs with out eating them ,and the lions do the same ,they hate each other!.Again this is rare
or kill in defense or to protect their young,
And Blessbuck and other Antelope or deer types and many other Animals kill for superiority over the females,this is usual
Pleasure or gain is rare,And so is religion these are our main reasons
that is funny all the cows Mooing may mean-- dont eat me ,and nobody listens or understands !.
Any way at the end of the day all of Nature is eat or be eaten
and with death be eaten anyway!.
the only problem as far as i can compute is that we are overstepping the equilibrium !.we are not consuming in a sustainable manner ,which DOES happen in natural eco systems!.
And we treat Animals like dirt ,If you have seen Earthlings that becomes very clearWww@FoodAQ@Com
If you were to ever slaughter an animal you would know that it does in fact scream for its life!. Very much like you would!.
**Byderule!.!.!.animals kill for reasons other than food all the time!.Www@FoodAQ@Com
**Byderule!.!.!.animals kill for reasons other than food all the time!.Www@FoodAQ@Com
well I could ask to eat them then and they could ask me the same thing!. I sure hope all the protein that is me wouldn't be wasted!.Www@FoodAQ@Com