Non-Vegan "Vegetarians" - Why is it ok to torture and kill but not eat?!


Question: Non-Vegan "Vegetarians" - Why is it ok to torture and kill but not eat!?
I have the best intentions towards you, but I'll hit you over the head with it:

The majority of vegetarians seem to substitute their meat for tons of cheese and other forms of dairy (sometimes eggs) with everything!.

Have you realised that the dairy and egg industries are even more traumatic to the animals than the meat industry!? Those animals undergo heinous torture and early messy deaths!.

Why is it ok for you to cause suffering and death, but it's not ok to eat their flesh!?

Search Earthlings!.Www@FoodAQ@Com


Answers:
Labels like 'free-range' and 'organic' mean more to consumers than they do to the animals!. The majority of the public are sucked in to the adverts of cows roaming around green fields with a map and hens with “ample room to peck and scratch”!. The reality of 'humane' farming is a lot different!.

I recently rescued 320 hens from a 'free-range' egg farm in the UK!. The group saved 10,000 during the entire week!. The barn looked like an aircraft hanger!. The 10K of hens were packed in with very little light!. The floor was made of bars that were covered in filth, below which was a 6 foot drop to piles of faeces!. The place stunk, as you can imagine!. The hens themselves were in quite good condition compared to most 'free-range' and 'organic' hens, I would guess around 10% of them had feathers missing and red and sore skin!. They were so cramped in that they fought each other for territory and out of boredom and insanity!. The farmer relinquished his 'spent stock' for free, where as he would usually be paid around 50 pence per chicken by the slaughterhouses!. Perhaps he had a sudden revelation of what he had done to these poor animals!. We took them all to caring homes and sanctuaries across the country, otherwise they would have been sent to be killed like all the other animals, battery, caged and 'organic' hens all face the chop at 18 months when their egg production declines!. All so humans can eat something unnecessary and unhealthy!.

Perhaps even more disturbing is the fact that the vast majority of male chicks are gassed, macerated (ground-up alive) or otherwise just disposed of!. This happens in any method of farming!. They are not needed by the egg industry so are chucked aside!. But those animals value their own lives as much as any of us!. They experience the world from a very unique viewpoint – their own!. They have sensations and emotions much like the rest of us, so deserve consideration and respect!. There is no need to exploit them and cause suffering and death to them, so why do it!?

I wrote an article about the hen rescue I took part in and posted it on the Internet, if anyone would like to know more: http://www!.animalrightscommunity!.com/blo!.!.!.

Conditions are hardly any better for 'humanely' farmed animals, and they all meet a premature death!. Their rights are definitely denied as they are forcefully bred, have their young snatched away from them, are abused for their 'produce' all their lives and murdered well before their time!. The most suffering that 'compassionate' farming relieves is probably that of the 'conscientious omnivore'!. The only way to not torture and kill to eat is to be vegan!. It's healthy and much better for the planet as well!. Vegans aren't claiming to be on the moral high ground!. It's not about themselves, it's about the animals!. We're all on an equal footing on this world, this is what animal rights is about!. 'Militant' vegans aren't fascists, they're desperate to see change in a world full of people apathetic to the torture and murder of millions of animals each year in the name of money, food, entertainment and pseudo-science!. Imagine how you would react in a world full of paedophiles and rapists!. It is similar for vegans who see that exploiting others for their own means is wrong!.

We say 'go vegan' and you say 'let people do their own thing'!. In doing your own thing, you are denying other animals, tiny, speechless and defenceless, the very basics of rights – their life and freedom!. You are human, you have a voice and are protected by law, you can stand up for yourself, so being asked to go vegan is hardly fascist!.

The thing about rights is that some have to be 'sacrificed' to defend the more fundamental rights of others, perhaps not just a few others but maybe a few thousand!. The psychopathic killer has rights, but his must be taken away in order to preserve the LIVES of potential victims!. In much the same way, humans should refrain from satisfying their taste-buds with familiar flavours to protect the fundamental rights of other living beings!. Giving up meat and animal products and replacing them with healthier alternatives is not exactly much of a sacrifice to preserve the rights of around 2000 animals throughout your lifetime!.


To exsft:

"1) That all vegetarians do it for the same exact reason namely animal rights!. That is simply not true"

The majority of vegetarians don't eat meat for the reasons that Misha has stated!. There is no inference of all vegetarians believing in animal rights!. It's fair to make statements like she has, since they apply to a majority!. I'd say the same things as she would!. If you disagree with this, then you're really splitting hairs!. What do you want us to say, "Hey, 66!.67% of vegetarians who either believe in animal rights or have some impression that animals deserve life and freedom!.!.!." or something!?

"2) That what you think you know about the dairy and egg industry is 100% accurate and correct!. Farming practices obviously vary from farmer to farmer!."

Nothing is 100% verifiable!. Nothing you say is for certain either!. We can never be sure of anything!. However, it is pretty clear that animals that are being exploited for thier produce and flesh or for any other reason have a strong tendancy to suffer!. What Misha said is actually true!. They do undergo torture and early messy deaths!. This is applicable to ALL of the animals in the egg and dairy industry, with exceptions to the rule for animals who have been rescued or escaped etc!. Animals that are cared for personally might not be butchered and have a wonderful life, but they are not part of the industry, if this is what you're thinking!.

"But after reading the rest of your rant: calling a calf a "child" for example (implying equal rights between human and animnals),I can honestly say where the REAL problem lies!."

You're infering something about her character from what she has written and are using it to argue your case, that's called attacking the arguer and isn't very good reasoning!.

"No, it is not okay to torture animals"

I would call having your child taken away from you and getting put through forced and painful labour every day until you're murdered before reaching adulthood torture!. If you don't, the you seriously need to reassess your definition of that word!.Www@FoodAQ@Com

Well sorry hunny but not everyone can be superheros, at least they (myself included) are doing SOMETHING!. Maybe it's medical, and like me, without cheese, and milk and eggs, they'd end up in the hospital with nutritional problems, and even then maybe, like myself, they eat only free range products!. Or maybe they just don't like the taste of meat, but still like milk and eggs!. Or it could be the fact that they don't actually kill the cow to get the milk, and cows need to be milked, and not EVERYONE tortures their cows!. Stereotyping is pretty uncool, you don't hear me sitting here saying all vegans are teen activist sluts do you!? No, so please get over yourself and let people live their lives without your criticism, thanks!.Www@FoodAQ@Com

Did you miss kindergarten, where we learned that young cattle were called calves!?!?!? heehee

also, I love animals, actually devoted my career to them!. I also eat meat!.

When you first learn about the harvesting process, you have two choices!.
1) Don't eat meat!.
2) Accept it as a fact of life!.

People have the right to examine the facts and come up to their own conclusion!. I could go on a rant about you not knowing a darn thing about dairy cattle!. But I won't!.
By teaching animal welfare friendly practices to farmers, I am doing more for them than you ever could!. I am helping animals have better lives on the farm!. What do you do!? Not eat them!? Big deal, whatever you don't eat just gets exported!.Www@FoodAQ@Com

You had better be eating all your food organnically grown from your very own garden, otherwise you are introducing pesticides and or fertilizers into the streams and harming the fish oh and you better not use any manure!.!.!.on second thought the garden its self and even the waterline leading to your house to water your garden may take an animals home away from them!. Better starve!. If you don't get your veggies from your back yard then your using transported goods which uses oil gasoline,ect!. Those roads tear through habitats and the gas and oil can also run off into streams killing fish and other species!. I gasp in horror if you use any packages which contain plastic and is bad for the environment or paper, whose trees could have housed millions of animals and insects!.!.

Seriosuly who the f*&k do you think you are!? In order to not trample on animals at all you better kill yourself!. And you better hand strangle yourself, any gun, poisen, rope or anything else will not be environmental eitherWww@FoodAQ@Com

I only eat free range dairy products making sure it comes from farms and not factories!.
Free range eggs means chickens lay eggs when they want and they get to run free and eat freely and are well cared for!. The eggs they lay can either be eaten or a chick is inside, the ones that have a chick inside are kept to hatch!.
Same with milk, cows MUST be milked or they will bevery uncomfortable basically they liked being milked, so as long as they don't have young to feed they will be milked when needed!.

Other people buy things made the way you describe but I reckon vegeterians get free range products!.Www@FoodAQ@Com

Some of you people are never happy!.

Why is it when you (vegans) get challenged that it is impossible to live a truly vegan life the reply is always "Just because I can't do everything doesn't meant I shouldn't do anything!." Followed, I think by,
"Nya, nya, nya, nya nanny-goat!."

Then here you are bagging on vegetarians for the exact same thing; that they don't go far enough and don't do enough and are hypocrites!.Www@FoodAQ@Com

I hope that you realize that you can't draw attention to yourself on an anonymous forum and expect people to take you seriously!. People are not going to do what someone tells them to when they know that they don't want to hear anything other than "OMG, you are so right!. I'm never eating dairy again!."

If you want to provide information to a person that has asked a question about being vegan, you would have a place in sharing whatever sources that you have!. However, getting up on a virtual soapbox and attracting the attention of anyone and everyone does nothing but perpetuate the preachy-vegan-stereotype and turn people off from the whole scene or whatever you may call it!.

If you truly want to influence people in positive ways, please read further!.
http://www!.veganoutreach!.org/advocacy

If you keep trying to sow guilt, you will reap nothing but resentment!.Www@FoodAQ@Com

Hi, I agree with all your sentiments and you make some really good points but I'm only saying this because I know what you're saying is right and am therefore vegan myself!. I understand your frustration about people who obviously care about animals enough to not eat them, but somehow don't quite get the whole picture and continue to consume/buy/use animal products!.

But shouting about it really doesn't get us anywhere, especially on websites like this one where you get some real idiots! Why don't you do something a bit more productive, join the vegan society, give to animal charities, volunteer for an organisation you believe in, don't waste your time and effort trying to enlighten people who just don't want to be enlightened!.Www@FoodAQ@Com

wow, calm down with the stereotyping!.!.!. as has already been mentioned, there are several reasons why people might be vegetarian! some people just want to try it for a couple of months "just to see"

you shouldn't go on like that to people either, people generally don't like being preached to, i hate it so i don't do it!

and, fyi i do NOT "substitute meat for tons of cheese!.!.!."Www@FoodAQ@Com

Arrh, i see you are another graduate from the Vegan Charm School

See my profile for other insults from your fellow classmates!.

Not all vegetarians eat dairy, get over yourself!.

It IS about you and your inablity to communicate!. There were so many other postive ways in which you could have conveyed your message!.Www@FoodAQ@Com

I don't think it's okay - that's why I buy free range and humanely raised eggs!.!.!.

I buy dairy from local farms where I can see how the cows are treated and I only eat vegetarian cheese!.

I also don't try to preach to the whole world about my eating habits, but if someone is interested, I will share my thoughts!.

Www@FoodAQ@Com

I couldn't decide which answer I wanted to use, so I used both!. Feel free to choose one and disregard the other!. Have a GREAT day!


Answer 1!.!.!.
If you have a chance to look behind you, you will see something sticking out from under your clothes!. This is the stick up your ***!. Kindly remove it and the world will be a better place!.

Thank you!.


Answer 2!.!.!.
(In the very annoying voice people speak to pets with) Awwwww, isn't that speshul!. Someone saw a movie!. Yesh they did, yesh they did!. You're such a good doggie!. Yesh you are!. Would you like a treat!? I bet you would!. Oh yesh, oh yesh!. You're the bestest doggie in the whole wide world!. Sit!. Good girl!. Roll over!. Good girl!. Now, be a sheep!. Oh, you're so good! Yesh you are!.Www@FoodAQ@Com

Oh God, here we go again!.

Vegans like you give everyone trying to help animals a BAD REP!!!!!
Can you not see that!?!?!?!?

I do what I can for animals, and really it is none of yours or any other stuck up self righteous vegans business!

You have NO idea how much I care about animals, stop trying to make me and others like me feel bad about what we are doing to help them!. Www@FoodAQ@Com

Hmm!.!.I fail to see a question here!. You are the reason the rest of us get a bad rap!. Good going!Www@FoodAQ@Com

The word "vegetarian" is a generic blanket term used to describe anybody who does not eat meat, poultry, fish, or seafood!. This encompasses vegans and also the various vegetarian sub-groups!. Vegetarians are generally those people who have chosen a diet with far less restrictions than those chosen by a vegan!.
The differences between the various vegetarian sub-groups may appear to be small, but they are very important to the members who belong to each groups!. In many cases the distinctions are important dietary or ethical decisions taken by the individual!.

Here are the various vegetarian sub-groups:

SEMI-VEGETARIAN
===================================
Semi-vegetarians are people who have chosen to live a lifestyle which is not strictly vegetarian!. A semi-vegetarian may be a person who only eats meat occasionally, or perhaps doesn’t eat meat, but eats poultry and fish!.

1) Ovo-Lacto-Vegetarian
--------------------------------------!.!.!.
Ovo-lacto vegetarians are vegetarians who do not eat meat, poultry, fish, and seafood, but do eat eggs and milk!. This is by far the largest group of vegetarians!.

2) Ovo-Vegetarian
--------------------------------------!.!.!.
Ovo-vegetarians are people who would be classed as vegans if they did not eat eggs!.

3) Lacto-Vegetarian
--------------------------------------!.!.!.
Lacto-vegetarians are people who would be classed as vegans if they did not consume milk!.

VEGAN
======================================!.!.!.
This is by far the strictest vegetarian sub-group or category!.
A vegan is a person who has chosen not to consume any animal products or byproducts!. Some will even so far as not consuming honey and yeast, and others will not wear any clothing made from animal products!. Veganism is a diet and lifestyle that seeks to exclude the use of animals for food, clothing, or any other purpose!. Vegans endeavor not to use or consume animal products of any kind!. The most common reasons for becoming a vegan are ethical commitment or moral convictions concerning animal rights, the environment, human health, and spiritual or religious concerns!. Of particular concern are the practices involved in factory farming and animal testing, and the intensive use of land and other resources required for animal farming!.Www@FoodAQ@Com

Why is it ok for you to RANT in such a condescending stuck up way!? Quit saying vegetarians don't do ''enough'' for the animals, frankly I'm sick of hearing that!. Myself, I am a vegan!. It's about personal commitment, if people want to be veg- ''let them be''!.

Reality check here!. It's not acceptable to FORCE your views on others!. That being said!.!.!.it's pretty obvious you are a troll!. New account + inflammatory question + internet automony= Its the troll combination!.

There's no rule saying ''you MUST be vegan or else''!. So!.!.!.Get off your high horse and stop preaching!. I hope people know not all vegans are like that!. Because going by your attitude and logic, shouldn't we all give up right now and have a steak!? ''Not doing enough''!? Grow up!.Www@FoodAQ@Com

i agree it's just as bad!. i've slowly taken steps to cut out dairy and eggs, but not completely!. honestly, i'm not ready to and dont' know if i will!. i dont' like it when people don't realize how cruel the dairy industry is, but i do realize it, i just havne't gone vegan ("yet" , maybe)!. i think being a vegetarian has done a lot of good though!. i know that me being one, gets a conversation going everywhere i go and has influenced a lot of people to reduce their meat intake!. i'm happy knowing that!. i think vegans tend to have a more "militant" "peta lover" image and i don't know if it helps as much!. i've heard before "well at least your just a vegetarian and not one of those VEGANS!. ugh!." so maybe if i was vegan i'd directly save more animals, but indirectly, in influencing others, not have any impact!. who knows!. but to sit here and "bash" people who aren't 100% isn't going to help!. that's like saying "omg you drink milk, might as well have veal" and no, i dont' think it's the same!.!.!.!. (i realize, technically it's close)!. i educate people wehre i can (i stand up for vegans when i hear comments and explain that it's not just about a dead animal but the suffering of factory farms, etc!.)!. are you 100% perfect to never consume the slightest animal product!? do you live in a hut!? do you use electricity!? i mean c'mon!.!.!.!. no one is perfect!. that you think you are and put others down for not being is not going to help anybody or anything!. the attitude above won't win over new vegans!. yet i've won over new vegetarians!. Www@FoodAQ@Com

Man, people are going to LAY INTO you over this!. You do realize that you sound totally sanctimonious and judgmental, right!? You approach on the offense, people are going to come back on the defense and quite possibly offense, too!.

a) I do not "replace" meat with eggs and tons of cheese!. I eat eggs a lot less than the average meat-eating person!. Same with cheese!. I eat it on average three times a week, I'd say!. Same with dairy!. Making overgeneralizations about vegetarians is just as offensive when coming from a vegan as it is coming from anyone else!.

b) Um, dude!. Have you ever heard of pasture-raised!? You can't tell me that that is more traumatic!. I only eat all-natural!. No hormones, no antibiotics, etc!. In short, the little animals are treated well enough that they can grow big and strong without artificial help!. I know, I know!. It's the principle!.

c) I object to the mistreatment of animals!. I have zero problem with meat raised in the same conditions as the dairy and eggs I consume!. To assume that all meat (and other food-producing animals) are raised in the same ghastly conditions as battery hens is incorrect!. To use the worst to represent an entire industry is fallacious!.

However, my dislike for the conditions in feedlots, factory farms, etc is not the only consideration!. I also have health concerns, taste preferences, and environmental concerns!. For me, it's far more environmentally friendly to consume local dairy that comes in recyclable packaging than it is to consume alternative "milks" that come over a thousand miles and in packaging that I can't recycle!. I believe I have a responsibility to the planet and ALL its inhabitants in the long term, not just a handful of animals!.

1!. I don't know if you're aware, but humans have been drinking milk for a long, long time!. Even on private family farms with only one cow, they would drink the milk!. Cows produce more than enough milk for feeding one calf!. Again, not all calves go straight off to the veal box!.

2!. I think the person who said you need to get over yourself was referring not to your beliefs, but the fact that you are judging (and even condemning) those who do not share them!. There's nothing wrong with believing that using animals for food in any way is wrong!. However, it's definitely arrogant to believe that others are somehow not as good as you because they don't have the same beliefs!. That's where the "get over yourself" comes from!.

3!. See above!. This is where the "get over yourself" comes from!. This can easily be taken farther and farther!. What about socioeconomic status!? In order for us to be wealthy, others must be poor!. In order for us to buy most of the clothes in the mall, others need to work in crappy conditions for a penance!. In order for us to have vaccines, animals (and people) are injected with drugs without their knowledge!. The point is, it's impossible to live without exploiting innocent people and animals!.

4!. Fascism is defined as followed: A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism (dictionary!.com)!. While I think fascism is a bit of a stretch, your desire to impose your personal moral beliefs on a large population could certainly be taken as an indication that you support dictatorship, suppression of opposition, and strict control of the population!.Www@FoodAQ@Com

Well, artificial insemination is the best way!. Keeping a bull to do the job is expensive and if you have never looked after a bull, let me tell you he is a dangerous animal!.
The animals that go for veal are male calves!. Even in a society that was completely friendly towards animals they would still have to cull the male calves!. The last thing you need on any farm is a bull you can't look after!. He won't care about your animal rights I can assure you!.
The only way to stop producing animals for food is to have no animals!. You can't just run friendly to animal farms!. The population around the world needs feeding and that isn't a possibility!. For those in the rich countries that can stop eating meat because of a moral issue, there are countries where the population struggle to feed themselves!. The argument about animal welfare does not exist!.
There is a falicy about whether being a vegan saves animals lives!. Every animal today will end up the same way!. If 50% of the population became vegans then possibly in the UK there may be 50% less animals to deal with, but those that are there will still have the same fate, the other 50% will just not have been born!. Some may look on that as a denial of life!.
I don't call anyone a fascist, quite the contrary!. I think people that have strong beliefs should be allowed to exist with others who equally have strong beliefs!. Who is right and who is wrong is a personal belief and we are all entitled to our own beliefs!.
Www@FoodAQ@Com

Why are vegans such fascists!? Surely you do not want to alienate, as you surely do, the vast majority of vegetarians who are at least trying to reduce their impact on animal suffering!. We are on the same side!. Being imperfect but trying is better than doing nothing!. Most vegetarians will go to great lengths to source eggs and dairy products which are free range and as cruelty free as possible!. While we do this we are putting pressure on farmers through market forces to provide viable cruelty free alternatives!. How exactly are you changing things!?

Add: Shouldn't vegetarians and vegans be working to together to ensure that animal exploitation is minimalised in an imperfect world!.

Add: You are a fascist not because of what you believe but because you wish to impose your belief on others!. Having intolerance for opinions other than your own is what makes you fascist!.

I believe I am far more likely to persuade a meat-eater to reduce the amount of meat they eat than you are likely to persuade them to give up all forms of animal exploitation completely!. Therefore my stance is likely to be more effective at reducing animal suffering in the real world!.Www@FoodAQ@Com

No, it is not okay to torture animals
Having said that, I can also say that you are being very presumptuous about a few things:
1) That all vegetarians do it for the same exact reason namely animal rights!. That is simply not true
2) That what you think you know about the dairy and egg industry is 100% accurate and correct!. Farming practices obviously vary from farmer to farmer!.

But after reading the rest of your rant: calling a calf a "child" for example (implying equal rights between human and animnals), I can honestly say where the REAL problem lies!. Www@FoodAQ@Com

The Lord said that all animals and plants are good to eat, and none are impure, as long as death doesn't follow when you consume it!. God put animals on the earth so we could eat, and live!. They are just animals!. Get over it!.Www@FoodAQ@Com





The consumer Foods information on foodaq.com is for informational purposes only and is not a substitute for medical advice or treatment for any medical conditions.
The answer content post by the user, if contains the copyright content please contact us, we will immediately remove it.
Copyright © 2007 FoodAQ - Terms of Use - Contact us - Privacy Policy

Food's Q&A Resources