For CA Prop 2 supporters?!
--or anyone else who would support the ban on caged laying hens!.!.!.
How do you respond to these facts:
1!. Prop 2 will destroy the CA egg industry through competitive disadvantage!. (Cage free production is at least 25% more expensive!.)
2!. Prop 2 will not result in any decrease in the overall number of caged laying hens since the lost production in CA will simply be taken up with increased production in NV and Mexico where standards are already lower and less regulated than CA's have ever been!.
3!. The economic loss from the closure of a $300 million industry will most greatly effect rural communities already impacted by high unemployment, low incomes, and minority populations!.
4!. Several veterinarian groups, including the AVMA, oppose prop 2 in part because of the research that indicates cage free production results in HIGHER disease and mortality rates among the hens!.
5!. Food safety will decrease as a result of imported eggs from less regulated sources and because a greater risk of contamination exists in cage free systems where eggs are in greater contact with manure!. (No case of salmonella has ever been linked to CA grown, cage-laid eggs!.)
**This question is here because of so many v/v choosing the lifestyle for ethical reasons!.
Www@FoodAQ@Com
How do you respond to these facts:
1!. Prop 2 will destroy the CA egg industry through competitive disadvantage!. (Cage free production is at least 25% more expensive!.)
2!. Prop 2 will not result in any decrease in the overall number of caged laying hens since the lost production in CA will simply be taken up with increased production in NV and Mexico where standards are already lower and less regulated than CA's have ever been!.
3!. The economic loss from the closure of a $300 million industry will most greatly effect rural communities already impacted by high unemployment, low incomes, and minority populations!.
4!. Several veterinarian groups, including the AVMA, oppose prop 2 in part because of the research that indicates cage free production results in HIGHER disease and mortality rates among the hens!.
5!. Food safety will decrease as a result of imported eggs from less regulated sources and because a greater risk of contamination exists in cage free systems where eggs are in greater contact with manure!. (No case of salmonella has ever been linked to CA grown, cage-laid eggs!.)
**This question is here because of so many v/v choosing the lifestyle for ethical reasons!.
Www@FoodAQ@Com
Answers:
I think they will just respond by not buying "caged hens" eggs which probably most of them already do anyway!. In the vegetarian and vegan section where you ask this question!. eggs are probably not on the high priority list anyway although animal are as you've pointed out!.
Vegans won't eat eggs no matter how you keep the hens!. Www@FoodAQ@Com
Vegans won't eat eggs no matter how you keep the hens!. Www@FoodAQ@Com
I'm a vegetarian for ethical reasons who tries not to eat eggs, I have an economics degree from an elite university, and I'm a libertarian (I generally support free markets and oppose government regulation in all areas of life, both economic and social)!.
Prop 2 sounds like a rational measure to counter the externality of modern caged-chicken egg production!. That externality being unfathomable sentient being suffering!. Watch a video about it on youtube for the truth!.
To reply to your points:
1!. Prop 2 will destroy the CA egg industry through competitive disadvantage!. (Cage free production is at least 25% more expensive!.)
Not true, but I will get to more economics later!. Beyond that, even if true, so what!? Banning slavery in the south caused them short-term economic harm!. Economics is really besides the point!. However, economically, eggs clearly labeled as humanely produced could easily garner the extra few cents it costs the manufacturers to make them!.
2!. Prop 2 will not result in any decrease in the overall number of caged laying hens since the lost production in CA will simply be taken up with increased production in NV and Mexico where standards are already lower and less regulated than CA's have ever been!.
False!. This is only true in the long-term given pure competition and all other factors being equal (which isn't reality), and only if other states do not adopt similar measures!. Given the track record of California setting national trends, it is likely other states will adopt humane measures!. Further, it is absurd to think that long-entrenched multi-million dollar factories would close up shop and move based on having to pay a few extra pennies (if that) per egg!. For example, California has almost a 10% corporate income tax compared to Nevada's 0% income tax; this is orders of magnitude of a great economic impact than prop 2, yet those California chicken "farms" still exist in California instead of moving to Nevada!.
3!. The economic loss from the closure of a $300 million industry will most greatly effect rural communities already impacted by high unemployment, low incomes, and minority populations!.
Refer to point 2 above!. It's a fantasy that the California egg industry would close!. also, refer to point 1, economics is not the core point of this ethical issue!.
4!. Several veterinarian groups, including the AVMA, oppose prop 2 in part because of the research that indicates cage free production results in HIGHER disease and mortality rates among the hens!.
I think this claim is easily debateable by facts!. Further, veterinary groups are hardly animal welfare advocates or moral philosophers!. Dog food gets approved by such groups even though it is often cruelly tested on animals, such as is the case with IAMS dog food (look it up)!. AVMA says so, so what!? What does the American Humane Society Say!? Or PETA!?
5!. Food safety will decrease as a result of imported eggs from less regulated sources and because a greater risk of contamination exists in cage free systems where eggs are in greater contact with manure!. (No case of salmonella has ever been linked to CA grown, cage-laid eggs!.)
Cage-systems are incredibly disgusting conditions to create eggs!. And I am not aware of a scientific study showing any greater risk of disease from responsible free-range egg production!.
Www@FoodAQ@Com
Prop 2 sounds like a rational measure to counter the externality of modern caged-chicken egg production!. That externality being unfathomable sentient being suffering!. Watch a video about it on youtube for the truth!.
To reply to your points:
1!. Prop 2 will destroy the CA egg industry through competitive disadvantage!. (Cage free production is at least 25% more expensive!.)
Not true, but I will get to more economics later!. Beyond that, even if true, so what!? Banning slavery in the south caused them short-term economic harm!. Economics is really besides the point!. However, economically, eggs clearly labeled as humanely produced could easily garner the extra few cents it costs the manufacturers to make them!.
2!. Prop 2 will not result in any decrease in the overall number of caged laying hens since the lost production in CA will simply be taken up with increased production in NV and Mexico where standards are already lower and less regulated than CA's have ever been!.
False!. This is only true in the long-term given pure competition and all other factors being equal (which isn't reality), and only if other states do not adopt similar measures!. Given the track record of California setting national trends, it is likely other states will adopt humane measures!. Further, it is absurd to think that long-entrenched multi-million dollar factories would close up shop and move based on having to pay a few extra pennies (if that) per egg!. For example, California has almost a 10% corporate income tax compared to Nevada's 0% income tax; this is orders of magnitude of a great economic impact than prop 2, yet those California chicken "farms" still exist in California instead of moving to Nevada!.
3!. The economic loss from the closure of a $300 million industry will most greatly effect rural communities already impacted by high unemployment, low incomes, and minority populations!.
Refer to point 2 above!. It's a fantasy that the California egg industry would close!. also, refer to point 1, economics is not the core point of this ethical issue!.
4!. Several veterinarian groups, including the AVMA, oppose prop 2 in part because of the research that indicates cage free production results in HIGHER disease and mortality rates among the hens!.
I think this claim is easily debateable by facts!. Further, veterinary groups are hardly animal welfare advocates or moral philosophers!. Dog food gets approved by such groups even though it is often cruelly tested on animals, such as is the case with IAMS dog food (look it up)!. AVMA says so, so what!? What does the American Humane Society Say!? Or PETA!?
5!. Food safety will decrease as a result of imported eggs from less regulated sources and because a greater risk of contamination exists in cage free systems where eggs are in greater contact with manure!. (No case of salmonella has ever been linked to CA grown, cage-laid eggs!.)
Cage-systems are incredibly disgusting conditions to create eggs!. And I am not aware of a scientific study showing any greater risk of disease from responsible free-range egg production!.
Www@FoodAQ@Com
If people want to eat eggs they should have to care for their own chicken(s)!.
1!. They had better move their operation out of state then!.
2!. People continue to sell the future of this country to China, so I doubt that this will cross their minds!.
3!. They should start preparing themselves for the change now instead of later!.
4!. Many doctors are still supportive of parents that want their sons circumcised so I'm a afraid that a PhD in whatever area of medicine does not earn the right to be taken seriously!.
5!. Then hopefully more people will start raising their own chickens for eggs!. They can even kill the chicken when production decreases since they are legally nothing more than property!.Www@FoodAQ@Com
1!. They had better move their operation out of state then!.
2!. People continue to sell the future of this country to China, so I doubt that this will cross their minds!.
3!. They should start preparing themselves for the change now instead of later!.
4!. Many doctors are still supportive of parents that want their sons circumcised so I'm a afraid that a PhD in whatever area of medicine does not earn the right to be taken seriously!.
5!. Then hopefully more people will start raising their own chickens for eggs!. They can even kill the chicken when production decreases since they are legally nothing more than property!.Www@FoodAQ@Com