Isn't eating dairy and eggs just as "wrong" as eating meat?!
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"Isn't eating dairy and eggs just as "wrong" as eating meat?"
Yes. None of the above are morally wrong at all.
Your implication that "most" people are vegetarian because of "suffering" is flawed; akin to saying everyone who isn't a Christian is an Atheist.
How so? Well, let's say one guy's a Vegetarian and Buddhist. Suffering as a terminology is part of his religion, so he may agree with you. Another guy who's also Vegetarian because of religion is a 7th Day Adventist. Suffering as a concept isn't connected with food, and he's a Vegetarian for entirely different reasons. Yet another guy is a Vegetarian for health reasons.
In fact, I'd venture to guess most Vegetarians are that way for health reasons, not because of some view of altruism. And even those who want to lessen suffering don't feel the need to end suffering at all costs. Reducing the amount of suffering by increments, for them, may very well be enough.
You know, this is something I always think. But first of all, I am not vegan or vegetarian myself, but I am trying to reduce the "animal products" slowly. I eat way less meat now than some years ago.
But well, I see a lot of "vegetarians" that say they do that for the animals. I myself think that a chicken is way more explored for the eggs than the ones that just suffer once when it is killed for the meat. A chicken would naturally just put one egg for a day, but some men put a lamp on their place to make it put 2 eggs a day.
Also, I see a lot of people self entitled "Vegetarian" that what they less eat are vegetables, but pasta (eggs) and cheese. They claim that they don`t eat meat because of animals, but what are they doing? they can`t say I am "evil" just because I put a little piece of meat on my dish with rice and some vegetables while they eat their fat pasta. If you stop to think they maybe are being mroe cruels with animals than me. Maybe they should be recalled as "cheesetarians" or "pastaterians"
This is what I use to say: if you stop eating some kind of food because of animals, then you should go vegan, and not only stop eating meat.
1) no its not as ''wrong'' because the animal is still living
2) most vegetarians buy or make sure that the source they buy from is a reputable source, not all countries have factory farming or support it (eg Ireland where i live)
3) yes you are right on the milk & one should research how many calves are sold to the veal industry & such but that still negates the fact that a vegetarian who consumes eggs & milk is doing what they can
4) your last point on being ''part of the problem still'', Even the dalai lama who is 100% all for protecting the enviorment & regularly raises it when speaking to nations in the UN & such, he is still contributing to global warming & such by travelling in a petrol fueled transport mobile. Does that mean he is just as bad?
As for the eggs, my friend who eats meat has his own chickens. He raised them & lives on a farm, i cannot logically see how he is being cruel by allowing them roam his yards & such. Also the EU plans to ban battery caging (now enriched cages are still bad) within the next 2 years.
vegetarian
had to answer quickly as my time on the library comptuer is up
I DO agree, but, state of affairs currently, it's just "easier" to be vegetarian rather than vegan. Veganism hasn't evolved enough yet. It needs to stop having negative stigma so people are wary of going vegan for fear of being ostracised. Foods need to be more vegan friendly (there's SO MUCH to look for in foods, clothes, makeup, hygenics, furniture, etc!).
But, really, atleast you are doing BETTER being vegetarian than eating omnivorously! Sure, you're proverbial "foot print" in the food industry isn't as significant, but it's a start, and MANY PEOPLE use vegetarianism as a stepping stone! I can't imagine (though applaud people who do it successfully) having gone STRAIGHT from omnivorous diet to vegan. It would have been very difficult. So, actually, vegetarians INCREASE the amount of vegans by a portion of them one day going vegan, and spreading news about vegetarianism/veganism simply by LIVING THEIR LIFESTYLE, they don't even need to "preach".
No we are not hypocrites. I started out vegan but i had to change when i got pregnant. I was told i had to start having full fat milk, natural yogurt and eggs. I wasn't happy about it but it was vital for my baby's development.
I don't like to eat eggs but if i do i make sure they are free range from local farmers (and i have been to my local farms so i know for a fact those chickens are happy) and as for yogurt and milk, i give that to my baby because she needs them for her development, the health professionals don't like kids being on vegan diets. I already get looked down on and ignorant comments because my daughter is vegetarian.
Anyway, aren't the vegetarians who eat fish the real hypocrites?
Ex-vegan
Yes, you're basically right. But I think any step towards eliminating animal products for your diet/attire is helpfull. The "Vegans are the Only True Compassionate Beings" attitude is very negative. Some people simply can't afford to be vegan.
I eat eggs that I buy at the farmers' market, and I know the exact conditions in which the chickens are kept. I think it's important for vegetarians/vegans not to impose their beliefs on others with so much judgement. It is really not a good way to go about converting people. I want people to respect my dietery restrictions and beliefs, and so I respect theirs in return. Drop the condescending act, it reflects poorly on all vegetarians/vegans
14 years without meat/fish
Well said by Bewegt, aka, Jude the Obscure. And Deer Hunter also made a good point.
@Babylove - you assume that the only reason one would be vegetarian is to end animal cruelty but you assume incorrectly. Wouldn't you think that at least not eating meat is a step, that may have an impact?
I am not better than anyone because I choose not to eat meat.
I don't think eating meat is "wrong", but I choose not to do it for MY reasons. Not everyone who is a vegetarian does it to "save" animals.
I've said this in other questions but this still applies:
I have my own 9 chickens, they are incredibly happy and healthy and raised in a loving and warm environment with a huge stall to sleep in at night and a huge yard to roam and scavenge. I only drink almond milk, not cows milk as well.
I think it all boils down to the fact that cutting out meat from ones diet is a very large step to saying "No" to factory farms and refusing to support cruelty. Some people aren't aware of the conditions chickens and cows are kept in though. I do have to agree with you that I believe its wrong to support factory farming, however cutting out meat from your diet is a very first big step and sometimes people need some time to adjust to that change without jumping into cutting out dairy and eggs immediately.
I will always get eggs from my own chickens, when they stop laying they will be pets and I will buy more off of a nice farmer I know a few hours away from me.
Dairy more so than eggs. If you have chickens as pets it isn't really that hideous to give them a hormonally-based feed that will cause them to lay eggs. Think of it as a chicken period. I know, ew... but if you find yourself in a situation of not being able to consume many vegetarian proteins, it's not the worst thing. And the chickens don't seem to mind. My grandmother's hens, who are totally domesticated, sweet birds, love to be fed fresh greens from the garden and enjoy being petted and 'talked' to - oh, and they lay eggs for their well-trained people. It's a symbiotic relationship.
Cow milk is for baby cows. Period. I probably would have been vegan forever just on that premise had I not given birth to children with multiple food allergies. As it is, I struggle to give them what they need on a lacto-ovo diet, and it's not without guilt. But my kids come first, sorry. I think most animals would probably understand that instinct.
We try to lessen the damage we do buy buying organic, but we're not fooling ourselves. Just trying to make 'less bad' decisions.
Absolutely, the dairy and egg industry is just as cruel as the meat industry. And this is about the big corporations/factory farms. Local farms on the other hand may not fall true to this.
I'm vegetarian. Why? Because I have huge respect for animals in the sense that I believe they deserve rights. I cannot be perfect though. I avoid dairy and eggs to an extent larger than I did before being vegetarian. Yet I know there is great room to improve. But something is certainly more than nothing. Nonetheless though, yes you are right.
So many people don't realize what actually goes on in dairies to get cows to produce milk, or what happens in hatcheries. They kill off the male chicks. Maybe keep a few, but most get killed off. When a female is done producing eggs, she gets to be slaughtered at a slaughterhouse.
Dairy cows eventually become beef on our plates..as do the calves that get killed so they don't drink the milk the mothers produce so people can buy the milk in grocery stores.
While I'm vegan, my dogs are on a raw diet. Because they are carnivores, so we feed them raw meats, and a little bit of raw veggies every week.
Edit: Yes, the cows are artificially inseminated, and the calves are killed at birth.
Edit: Bloatus Nutjob...if people don't buy meat at the stores, then the store doesn't buy from the supplier, so therefore the supplier no longer provides meat and such because it's not getting them any money..I wish trolls would get a clue as well as a love life...
I don't think so. Somehow slaughtering an animal seems more wrong than causing it discomfort and/or pain to me. And it seems reasonable to me to assume that people who are lacto-ovo-vegetarian for ethical reasons probably buy free-range milk and eggs -- which, while not cruelty-free, is certainly a step up from most producers.
Vegan who doesn't like reductive arguments.
Pretty much.
If you're vegetarian because of the animal cruelty, it would be odd to still eat those eggs and milk and cheese, unless you knew for sure the cows and hens were very happy and fat and well loved and lived on a free-range farm to bring you those things, and weren't injected with hormones to keep lactating.
I'm sure there are farms like that, but there can't be many.
I agree that if one is changing their diet for ethical reasons, then veganism is the goal. However, on the road to veganism, vegetarianism is a very important step which should not be belittled.
And from an environmental standpoint, just eliminating beef from one's diet is a powerful tool in fighting global warming.
I like to be vegetarian with a wide range of foods. Health is the goal, not being a purist for the name sake. I eat cottage cheese, cheese and egg once in a while. The main thing is to not overeat-that is really destructive. Eat the way you feel the best. I like to include green smoothies and raw foods,too.
Balance, nothing too weird.
totally agree. there was a video on you tube called slaughter at pregnancy where they chained up the cow who was too old...and while she was conscious they cut out her calf...and left it on the floor to die...with the mother braying for her dying calf while her insides fell out from her butchered caesarian...they they pulled her along and killed her.... the calf got stamped on.... and this happens daily.
http://www.sixstepstobetterhealth.com/an…
Meat involves the slaughtering of the animal, that was raised to feed us.
Eggs and Milk are what the animals make. It's not cruel. It is all controlled. If the animal is healthy and is having a good life then they are fine.
i certainly think so. im more passionate about getting people to quit consuming dairy than i am about getting them to quit eating meat.
http://wayfaringvegans.weebly.com/
People do what they can. Vegetarians do much more for animals than people who do nothing at all and some of them will eventually become vegans.
vegan
I think that anybody who does what they can helps. Even if meat eaters only eat free range meat, that's great in my opinion.
I don't think I'm "better than those who eat meat". I just think they're misguided.
I think you're being judgemental, it's people like you who reinforce the stereotypes about vegetarians and vegans shoving their beliefs down peoples throats. Showing them how tasty the food is is a better tactic ;).
Plus you're wrong about cows, they don't only lactate when pregnant. They need to become pregnant in order to begin to lactate but once they have started lactating as long as they are milked regularly they will continue to produce milk. In theory until they reach old age though sometimes because of the constant milking they delevop problems. Still not cruelty free just wanted to point out they do not NEED to be continously pregnant in order to lactate.
I also think you need to remember that many people don't become veggie because of their love of animals; for example hindus are vegetarian because it's their religion, a large factor in this is their belief in reincarnation I believe. Many people become veggie because it creates far less of an impact on the environment than consuming meat does. My nan does not like animals but has been a veggie for many years because she had to assist in a kidney transplant and the kidney looked the same as one you would buy in the butchers (I have no idea what she expected it to look like either).
I personally became vegetarian because I believe eating something that was alive is wrong. I do feel guilt about the dairy industry as I know it is not cruelty free, I also feel guilt about eggs occasionally but to a lesser extent as I always buy free range and the majority of the time get eggs from the chickens my nan keeps anyway and I know these are treated fantastically. Honey doesn't really bother me but I don't eat it often anyway. I believe that in the future I will definitely give up milk and possibly eggs (although I dream of one day being able to keep my own chickens). However at this time the decision is not the right one for me, my diet is limited as it is and to be honest my body needs to get it's iron levels up before I take away anything else. I previously felt I didn't need supplements being silly, I've now admitted that I do. Yes I could do more but unless you're a hippy living on some commune growing your own food and clothes there is always something more to be done. Sometimes you have to step back and say "No, I'm doing enough, I need to focus on me". I believe for this moment of my life I am doing all I can and I feel happy with my choices.
In an ideal world everyone would be vegan and there would be no cruelty, but it's not an ideal world, no one is going to mass convert to veganism or vegetarian. I think maybe eventually many years in the future people may be forced to give up meat as the earth's resources dwindle but for now there will be meat eaters in the world. I might not be doing all I can but I'm doing more than most.
It is. I'm a vegetarian and have been my whole life. I want to go vegan so bad. Whenever I drink milk or eat cheese or dairy, I feel like a rapist. I hatehatehate eating dairy. I don't drink milk anymore; I only drink soy. However I do consume it when it cooked into things. I feel bad doing this, really really bad, but I'm 16 and I can't maintain a high maintenance diet. My parents also do not want to support me going vegan :(
We also don't have many places where I can get vegan foods, like vegan cheese. I have found "veggie cheese" but it contains milk protein. AGHHHH.
I don't eat gelatin though. That's a huge no no for me.
Whenever I do eat cheese, I always think of the poor animal who suffered to give it to me. Always. </3
16 y/o super strict vegetarian
That's a good question.
But I don't think it's as bad because the animals involved aren't killed.
And not all animals are reared on factory farms, so don't suffer.
Although a Vegan might say that there was no consent involved, so it's wrong.
Vegetarian
They don't kill the animals to get dairy and eggs. If you buy it from organic farms, I really don't see a problem. The cow naturally gives milk, the chicken naturally lays eggs.
Yes. Vegetarians are hypocrites. Either go vegan or go home! Going VEGAN is the ONLY way to end animal cruelty.
VEGAN.
Just because you think its wrong doesn't mean it is.
You will be amazed how much they contribute to animal suffering and to be honest their actions are selfish, I do not understand how they can justify their right to make omnivores out to be mindless eaters when Veg/vegans contribute greatly to animal suffering by NOT supporting free range and organic farms so allowing intensive rearing to grow. They would rather act selfishly thinking that meat will one day not be needed so they focus on that, they do not think of others outside concrete cities and cultures, that depend on it to survive. Even the products in which veg/vegans need to survive like fuel, heat, food, clothing and gadgets, they need to start helping than choosing to force people think their way is justified and should be followed by all. They need to get out of their bubble and realise they all contribute to suffering as they call it and they have to be realistic that meat will never go away but at least better practise. Think about it how is them not eating meat and supporting any meat industry helping anyone but their conshense (cant spell it) and moral needs no less animals are culled for food because they choose not to eat meat and intensive rearing is winning due to the lack of support for organic and free range meat and dairy!!! Ironic as it is I think veg/vegans actions do more to support intensive than organic/free range practises.
I will no doubt get plenty of abuse thumb downs and reported but from this page all I see is a lot of mouth than realistic progress and approach.
So to your question yes it can be just as wrong as eating intensive meat but you can make better choices to buy local and from organic and free range, at least you will be able to see the cows in green field and know you are contributing to better practises that many should follow and most of all supporting the better than the bad!! As consumers rather chose to shop in supermarkets and expect cheap dairy farmers are closing down at such a rate where yet again they are looking toward intensive rearing and making super barns so they cam meld many farms into one. Due to the animal rights group made people be put off by veal than fight for better conditions at least, it seems that animals dying for no reason is better than them at least getting used for something so their is a lot of calves die the moment they are born due to the lack of demand!!
Then they are contributing to animal, habitat and ecosystem destruction and suffering through many other things like transport, housing, heat, fuel, oil, gadgets, clothes and even their own food the fact that in the UK for the average veg/vegan to survive needs imported food to survive as the UK can not grow the different variety's to get their nutrients on!!
Veg/vegans need a reality check and rather than fighting actually help and change the attitude to food today and make it more organic and free range, I would rather help the better of the two than nothing at all is you sit on the fence you might as well admit you support the bad!!
Omnivore sick and tired of BS and ignorance.