Vegans, please help me out here concerning dairy products?!

I think she's asking if vegans see it as "wrong" if someone else chooses to buy dairy products produced that way.

Not all vegans think the same. But in my opinion, cows are domesticated animals and I don't think its wrong if someone keeps them as "pets," treats them with respect. If the cow has a calf and is allowed to nurse him, IF you really need the milk....I don't think its wrong to take a little bit as long as the calf has the milk he really needs. Or if you have a rescued pet chicken and eat some of her eggs.

The problem that most vegans have with "humane" dairy farms is that you really don't know how animals are treated unless you see for yourself. Labels mean little to nothing in terms of how they are really treated. When the animal is no longer profitable it get slaughtered for its meat.

First of all, if the calf drinks the milk, then there isn't any to sell to the humans. So the calf must be killed if milk production is to occur.

Second, even if the cow is treated well while she is producing milk, no commercial farmer is going to keep feeding and caring for a cow after her production falls off. So she gets sent to the slaughterhouse eventually, too.

Third, even if you have a pet cow whose calf tragically died of natural causes, milk is an animal product which vegans, by definition, do not consume. Whether or not it's humane is besides the point; people who consume milk are at best lacto-vegetarians, not vegans.

Fourth, dairy is high in saturated fats and cholesterol. Also pasteurized milk tastes awful, as far as I'm concerned, and I've never drank it willingly except in coffee or tea.

There is nothing wrong, per se, with eating or drinking dairy, it is just technically not vegan. Vegans do not consume or use any animals or animal products. Being vegan is a very personal decision. Many vegans believe it is not ethical to use animals for our own purposes. Using dairy products from cows that are well cared for means you are a caring person, but a vegetarian none the less. It doesn't mean that using those products is bad, it just means you're not vegan.

Vegans by definition do not consume animal products.

Dairy is an animal product.


Regardless of how "nicely" dairy cows MIGHT be treated on a local, small-sized farm,
using sentient creatures as machines is unethical,
and all those cows end up where the others do after they're no longer "useful".

EDIT: For the same reason I can't keep a black person captive in my house to do my chores, even if I feed and clothe him or her- sentient creatures are not property.

I think it's very unlikely that a farm operates in this way. How can they not kill the calf? The females could give milk, though most would be consumed by the calves, but the farm would soon be overrun with bulls and non-producing cows. Cattle live to 20+ years old naturally. They couldn't feed cows past milking age and a herd of bulls and still make a living.

I wrote a blog post that I believe exactly answers your additional question: http://expandingcircle.wordpress.com/200…

I also agree with the answerers who simply say it's not for us. Cow's milk is for baby cows, and what right do we have to take it?

I'm a vegetarian but buy my dairy from local grass fed cows and cheeses from small ethical farms. COmmercial dairy is really the concern. There are great small farms that give their animals great lives!

But in the end it's all what you feel comfortable with, it's a personal choice.

Sorry, this is vegetarian not vegan.
Vegan means you can't use any animal products.
I don't drink nor eat dairy because most cow milk is full of stuff and cows and other animals are treated cruelly to get their products.

Haha, NO. If you add ANY dairy product to your diet, it doesn't matter even if it's from a cow on your back door who you feed organic, you're not a vegan anymore.

To be a true Vegan you avoid all animal (fish incl.) products whether or not the products are obtained morally or not. It about not consuming animal products under any circumstances.

That would make you vegetarian, not vegan.