Anti Hunters: What is your take on Chronic Wasting Disease?!

In terms of human-forced population control, a legitimate solution could be selective sterilization.

That said, I do believe that while nature can indeed be harsh, it does balance itself out. The reason why starvation and overpopulation are so rampant amongst deer populations is the simple fact that humans have forcibly removed so many natural predators from their habitats, going completely against the natural balance of things. Starvation is nature's own method of emergency/secondary population control... albeit not a pretty one.

Personally, I would be more inclined to side with efforts to either sterilize certain populations, or to encourage re-introduction/maintinence of natural predation. However, the latter doesn't float too well with most people (who have obviously never lived near wildlife themselves).

I have nothing against responsible hunting using sustainable and humane methods. Particularly when the animal's carcass is put to use. I have no respect whatsoever for "trophy hunters" (who, in my opinion, are the types of people compensating for lacks in other areas of life).

EDIT:::
I do realize that sterilization is not a particularly fiscally feasible alternative, unless those procedures are limited to males and either financed through private donation or perhaps as an extension of the wildlife biology programmes of colleges, etc. Yes, this is a stretch, and I wholly admit that, but I do feel that it is an option that could at least be put on the table... at the very least, it could be a very educational introduction to biology programmes, while serving a secondary purpose.

As far as predator re-introduction, I completely understand the issues that can and usually are created when introducing even native species to a new area. That said, I do still feel that wildlife management procedures that encourage the maintinence of already-present species would be greatly beneficial. Too much has been invested in recent history in eliminating these species, and as it is a continued practice to discourage them, we are only perpetuating the ever-increasing numbers of deer/etc. By allowing management practices that help to preserve the existing number of predatory species, we can in an indirect way, allow nature to re-balance herself, at least to some degree.

In the current situation, responsible hunting really *is* not only the most direct, but the most feasible way to aid the return of deer/etc. populations to numbers manageable by both man and nature at once.

I would like to add myself, that I completely agree with your own reasoning for hunting, and your responsible approach to it! In no way am I suggesting that hunting should be discouraged! Responsible hunters like yourselves really need to be at the fore-front of the hunting discussion, as opposed to those who refuse to make any argument or statement beyond "but its fun".

I am not anti-hunting. I'm vegan because I oppose domestication, captivity, cruelty, and factory farming.

However, the point of hunting for many, many hunters is to go kill the biggest and healthiest specimens, not the sick or elderly. Natural selection removes the weakest in the herd, making the herd stronger. Humans kill off natural predators, drastically reduce habitat size, kill the best specimens, and then announce that hunting is the only solution to the resultant overpopulation problem.

Just a side note, you might add that it's basically mad-cow disease for deer, elk and caribou, occurring naturally.

Not one of you have a clue, you have no way to fix the problem. But just uneducated insults. Returning natural predators to their former home range would cause unwanted conflicts with humans. Look at Yellow Stone and the reintroduction of timber wolves and the problems caused by their return by feeding on livestock instead of their natural prey or humans invading the homes of mountain lions in californian, resulting in attacks of humans. Do we throw the people out of their homes or tell them to get use to your children getting attacked because you want a house with a mountain view? Sterilization of animals is a dumb as doing it to humans for....whatever reason you want.

If you believe global warming is cause by man and we need to try to fix the problem, then it is the same for reason for hunting. Considering you rely on other human and farms to provide your food source. I seriously doubt any of you own enough property to grow your own for a year and store for a year before in spoils.

You contribute to as many or more problems to wild animals and their environment than any hunter. How you ask, Well do you give money to, groups like Ducks Unlimited, The Rocky Mountain Elk Federation, The Wild Turkey Federation, etc that buy land and protects wildlife habitat and provides research of the wild animal populations and their affect on their habitat. No. Even the money raised from hunting licenses and hunting supplies goes back to research of those animals.

You buy soy based products that, as the demand increases the farmers will need to increase their acreage to meet demands causing loss of wildlife habitat and increase in greenhouse gases from the equipment used to harvest the crops (highly doubt they use electric tractors). Just keep in mind at just one whitetail needs about 1.5 acres of food a year to survive. How may farmers are going to say "oh let the deer eat whatever they want",...answer ZERO. I haven't met a farmer yet that hasn't told me to "shoot every ******** deer i see" because what they don't eat they walk down. Loss of crops is loss of profits. You'll pay for deer and other animals damage in the groceries stores, p.s. deer LOVE soy beans and corn and apples and turnips. Hell they'll eat peaches too! I talked to guy who said that he watched a deer eat the buds of cotton plants.

CWD is transfered from animals feeding together and with higher than normal populations per acre. Causing healthy deer to intract with diseased deer. And it is not fully know if other animals or humans can contract this disease yet. i.e., a diseased deer eats in your garden then you eat out of the same garden. Or your dog would eat infected feces.

I hunt, but not just to "kill", i enjoy seeing the animals in a way you never will, I've watched a whitetail buck kill a doe because she wasn't ready to breed. Or two bucks fighting to the death for breeding rights and one or both do die. You'll never see that on national geographic. Or the feeling of a bull elk screaming less than 20 feet away from you and how it shakes your soul. And by your respones you'd never make it pass your front door to do so. So i pity you from not seeing nature the way a hunter does and loves it the way a hunter does. Hunters are the original tree hungers, true caretakers of the land.

I am only anti-hunting because I am vegan and opposed to violence. I say that to explain that my position is values based, and that I just cannot find it in myself to approve of killing. In the same way, a person who is morally opposed to war would be unable to fire at the enemy no matter what.

When it comes to arguments about starvation and disease, I think the thing that strikes me most is that hunters do not seem to be being honest with themselves. You say the deer is your favorite animal, and yet you kill it. You kill it for food instead of planting a garden. You kill it to save it. Mr. Alsheimer feels hunting is the only way to save the whitetail deer. Really? If this were a disease in people, is this how we would respond? Of course not. What would we do if it were dogs? Mr. Alsheimer has put a really big invisible condition on the word "only." Maybe that condition is "cheap," or "easy." Let's be honest about that and include that when we say "only."

I would suggest that this approach to saving deer is acceptable to many because they already want to kill deer. I strongly suspect that hunters go out before dawn to spend the day shivering in the woods not to altruistically save deer but because they like to kill them. Many talk of the thrill, the family time, or becoming closer to nature. I can think of less violent ways to accomplish all these things, ways that would nourish us more deeply because more honestly.

Sometimes I wonder this. Hunters say they go out and kill deer because they care about them. I've often wondered if the hunters spend the same time and energy on other causes. If not, we again need to ask why they are so interested in being so helpful in this one particular way.

You've also triggered a pet peeve of mine, calling killing a "harvest." It seems to me that all those hunting euphemisms such as taking, culling, etc., are an attempt to deflect an ugly truth. If you're comfortable with killing, why not be comfortable with the word?

So I do not know much about deer biology and have not really answered your sub-question about what a solution should be. But I have answered your main question about why hunting makes me very uneasy, even in the face of CWD.

Thank you for your respectful questions.

Do you think that because you eat the dead carcass of an animal it excuses the fact that you invaded their home and shot them? Jeffrey Dahmer ate his victims, but does that excuse him?
Hunters have caused CWD and will only contribute further into it. You see, hunters use the order of natural selection against an animal, opting to shoot the bigger stronger ones in favor of sparing the weak and sickly. This leads to something called compensatory reproduction, where the species in question (Widely recognized in deer) reproduces at a rapid rate as it is easier to seek out mates. Of course the Hunting associations and people who hunt are going to say "You're the solution! Go out and hunt some more!" when in reality, if it wasn't for "food" hunting or what some even dare to call "Sport hunting",the most disgusting of them all, there wouldn't be this problem in the first place. How about instead of trying to cull an animal population, we push back the human species that is invading their lifetime territory?
Whether hunting is right or wrong, a spiritual experience, or an outlet for the killer instinct, one thing it is not is a sport. Sport is when individuals or teams compete against each other under equal circumstances to determine who is better at a given game or endeavor. Hunting will be a sport when deer, elk, bears, and ducks are... given 12-gauge shotguns. Bet we'd see a lot fewer drunk yahoos (live ones, anyway) in the woods if that happened.

Here are some quotes for you,
"Of all the creatures ever made, Man is the most detestable. He is the only creature that inflicts pain for sport, knowing it to be pain."

"The person who kills for fun is announcing that, could he get away with it, he'd kill you for fun. Your...life may be of no consequence to anyone else but is invaluable to you because it's the only one you've got. Exactly the same is true of each individual deer, hare, rabbit, fox, fish, pheasant and butterfly. Humans should enjoy their own lives, not taking others'."

"When a man wantonly destroys one of the works of man we call him a vandal. When he destroys one of the works of god we call him a sportsman."

Yes I have a simple solution too stop overpopulation, have your humyns spayed and neutered.

Deer populations have never been out of control, except when a hunter wants to go hunting. Then the hunter makes up claims about how deer are starving or over populated or what have you so they can do what they want to do without regard to anybody else but themselves.

The simple fact is deer are running out of space because mainly rich people move into the woods build a big house to be closer to nature and realize they hate nature and so they want to destroy it further. We also are destroying the woods with destructive clear cutting and also destroying the planet elsewhere.

They wouldn't starve if they had their land back and if humyns would stop breeding so much and learn that this is not our planet too destroy and exploit at every turn for any reason but a shared planet on which we are the lessers. We need to work to voluntarily lower our population and eventually phase ourselves out and let the planet try and work back to it's natural state. We also need to stop getting involved with nature aside from working to clean it up and save it without killing anybody. That is the best way to stop mass populace disease better known as human breeding.

Funny how you call deer your favorite animals but want to kill them. Usually when you like somebody you don't try and kill them.

The true reason for hunting was because we didn't know any better. We had made up religions and ideas that animals are property and ours to exploit and abuse for any reason we chose to come up with and sadly we have yet to unlearn that.
Hunting honestly is just an extension of some humyns lust for blood and killing sombody weaker than they are. We love violence and love seeing and experiencing violence as long as it is not directed at us and we go into spasms of joy when we get to do it. If you honestly need to hunt to control populations find some consenting humyns and hunt them. That covers the bloodlust and leaves the deer alone as well as helping control the humyn population without genocide or mass slaughter or wars of any sort.

Stay out of the woods unless it is too clean them up back too their pre-humyn state and decrease the humyn population naturally. Stop making decisions for others (ie: the deer) and start making choices that are better for the planet.

Studying hunting and hunters as well as humyn overpopulation and environmental destruction.

thats nature
why we feel we need to intervene, or that nature and natural law needs us to intervene is just arrogance, and honestly usually to me sounds just like excuses to do what you do, hunt

nature continues on whether we do soemthing or not, what it does, its gonna do, its done it before, and wil ldo it again, long after we are gone, and know what, im sure it life will continue on just fine

animals live, they die, they get diseases, they get population issues, so do we, thats just life






additional

to your edit

i did read, well, skimmed, soem of howes rant
all i have to say about it is, do i have to "know" anything about property or owning property or anything else to be who i am?

im a vege, i dont like hurting or hunting other life, i do what i can, but our soceity only allows so much, and im aware of that

i didnt know i had to have a specific knowledge or live a certain way , in accordance with his preference, to be me

and as 'rational' as soem of his argument may be, it all still comes off as excuse upon excuse

'we cause the damage so lets not help because we could cause more' and 'you peopel dont know anything i know better'
its non logic , personal attacks and certainly not a solution to any of the problems we have now

evey solution has its problems, who said they dont?
but when was that a reason to just let things stay as they are?
thats not how we or life works

i dont need to be 'moved' by soemone else, i already know enough, i know the basic arguments for aginst etc, but it stil doesnt change that suffering of other life is soemthing i would prefer to avoid when i can, thats who i am, i cant change that just cos both sides have some rational points

im always willing to learn, but i wouldnt say howe is the person to teach ,anyone, hes just another person with an opinion who hs to be agressive and arrogant instead of just give facts

OOOOOOOOhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.... thats SO MEAN! furry animals should get to run free in the flowery fields, not be cut down by your savage bloodthirsty primal drive to kill!


Ok, i couldnt do it with a straight face, sorry. Meat belongs on my plate, between the potato and corn. You dont have to eat meat, just dont tell me i shouldnt.