If all these are true...why do people attack vegetarianism?!
If all these are true...why do people attack vegetarianism?
1.) Humans are not carnivores, we are omnivores like pigs. Cave men, before tools, would clearly not be able to hunt down prey in the way that carnivores (e.g. lions) do. This rules out killing large prey (but not birds and fish.) Our nails are not claws, are canines are not very long and require the cutting of meat, especially tough meat. We only eat the most tender of meat raw, and even then are liable to get diseases from it.
Our intestines are not smooth inside, but 'bobbly,' like those of a herbivore, and are not as long as carnivores intestines. Protein can be obtained from nuts, seeds, beans, lentils. Iron can come from green veg, apricots, seaweed.
2.) Animals can, and clearly do, feel pain. I respect your opinion as to whether this is important, but it is important to me. I don't believe that any unneccesary suffering should be caused, or that an animal should die, just for me to have a tasty meal. My tastebuds are not as important to me as the lives of animals.
7 months ago
3.) Tradition is not always correct. Slavery, for example, and Racism.
4.) We are animals, but we are also more moral than animals. We condemn rape and fighting to the death, yet these are natural animal activities and could be 'natural' for us also.
7 months ago
I am not trying to convert by the way - it's more of a personal wondering what is so wrong with vegetarianism to others - I've been looked at and talked to as if I'm stupid ever since I made the choice. Or as if I'm trying to be righteous. Which is nasty considering I barely ever tell people I'm a veggie.
7 months ago
'o_r_y_g_u...' that is mainly because YOU didn't fight your way to the top of the food chain! And I'm not saying veganism. What rabbits do you know that eat dairy, beans, pasta, tomatoes...??
Answers:
7 months ago
3.) Tradition is not always correct. Slavery, for example, and Racism.
4.) We are animals, but we are also more moral than animals. We condemn rape and fighting to the death, yet these are natural animal activities and could be 'natural' for us also.
7 months ago
I am not trying to convert by the way - it's more of a personal wondering what is so wrong with vegetarianism to others - I've been looked at and talked to as if I'm stupid ever since I made the choice. Or as if I'm trying to be righteous. Which is nasty considering I barely ever tell people I'm a veggie.
7 months ago
'o_r_y_g_u...' that is mainly because YOU didn't fight your way to the top of the food chain! And I'm not saying veganism. What rabbits do you know that eat dairy, beans, pasta, tomatoes...??
I think people attack it because of vegetarian goody two shoes telling people what to eat.
I know all of these things that you stated, but at the end of the day i love a big juicy steak, and to hell with people telling me I cant eat it.
amen.
Hey....I think it's wonderful for someone to be a herbivore. I don't mind a bit until they start ranting and preaching and making a big deal of it.
My wife WAS a vegetarian when we met, but I got her to switch to a normal eating style so that when we go out, it won't be such a big issue. She still will order veg stuff when we are somewhere that has it on the menu, but she doesn't obsess about it.
Actually, I WISH I could be a vegetarian, but I just love meat too much!
I guess the same reasons folks attack religion.
Most folks are perfectly happy if our neighbour is a vegetarian, happy also if he is religious.
The moment he starts trying to convert us though and taking the higher moral ground - it all gets really ugly really fast.
If you're a vegetarian, fab! If you try and tell me how good you are by eating plants (and by inference how bad I am for eating meat), then expect me to defend my right to eat meat.
People TEND to only attack when they themselves are being attacked.
You let me eat meat in peace and I shall smile sweetly at you eating plants. If you wish to kick-off - please expect me to do the same in return.
Fair nuff?
I didn't fight my way to the top of the food chain to eat rabbit food.
Regarding statement #4.... We are all Animals...
Consider that there would be many, many more rapist and killers if you did not have laws with possible prison and death sentences for such acts.
Also consider that people that are doing good financially, are happy and don't want to lose their status or toys... So they take extra measures to behave in a way that will protect their life style.
A good example of man (the human) is evident in riots like in LA with all the looting. And the physical attacks & rapes that took place after the New Orleans hurricane... Where is appears that there is no law or penilty for ones actions.
People attack vegetarians because they are different and they preach. People don't like to be condemed or preached to.
Humans are the most complex beings on this planet. This meaning how everything in our body functions for example, taking even something as simple as our digestive system.
Is our complexity just a coincidence? You tell me. And why is that humans are the only creatures on this earth that feel a need for spirituality? Is that just a coincidence as well? Do you explain all of this away with "humans are higher forms of animals"?
Either way...No matter how you look at it, essential nutrients are found within the meats of animals we eat. Nowhere else can some of these nutrients be found.
And yes, I do not agree with certain ways animals are being treated in order to bring about meat to humans but humans do still need to eat meat.
Personally, I think the solution to solving the conflicts associated with eating animals is not to stop eating them but to change the process of animal to meat in the grocery store.
And really, if animals can eat each other, why is it that humans should not eat them? ;)
Nothing wrong with vegetarianism. It's just the vegans who:
1) Expect others to know what they eat. I met a guy who started going ballistic at a college cafeteria because they didn't offer a vegetarian meal and they were supposed to. I knew a guy at the cafeteria, so I asked him if they were required to serve a veggie meal, and he said--we did--the fish. Calmly educating the kitchen that fish aren't vegetarian in most people's opinions led them to ask what they mean by vegetarian. It turned out that many things served wouldn't count (like bean burritos made with cheese or the wrong beans), and that the cafeteria was more than willing to change the menu. And this particular vegetarian would rather bother the dean and start a protest than to just tell the chef that fish aren't vegetables.
2) The ones who act disgusted when they see you eat meat. I could understand if I eat it blue or rare, but I have mine well-done. I can't believe anyone was born revolted by meat--it's totally an act to start an argument while I'm dining, and that's just plain rude.
I've met plenty of vegetarians who don't fit into either of those categories. I've seen the health benefits for one woman who went veg for a summer and came back to school looking SO much better. Please don't preach while I'm eating, and we'll get along fine. You might even get me to eat half a block of tofu (before I grab a burger on my way home).
1. There are HERBIVORES: Who only eat vegetation. Then there are OMNIVORES: an animal that feeds on both animal and vegetable substances and then there are CARNIVORES: Of course that only eat other animals/meat.
Even though the human body can survive on plantation, regretfully we dont always get all the nutrients we need from plantlife. Things such as Omega 3's, iron, vitamin b groups and protein come in high volumes in meat products and our bodies cannot supply these needs. Some plantlife will have some of these groups but you need to eat substantially more of them to get the same affect that you get from meat. Even though a human's canines are not that long we do have them which gives us the capacity to eat meat. This is why the cavemen found a way to kill bacteria by cooking meat.
We used to live in a day and age when we couldnt just go to our corner store and pick up a bottle of omega 3 tabs or fish oil supplements. If you needed it you killed meat for it. Whether or not people instinctually knew they were missing nutrients we will probably never know.
Now we live in age where you can walk into any corner store and find the necessary supplements without having to sacrifice animals. And i respect any vegan or vegetarian that decides to do so.
2. I am a meat eater and i will never convert to a vegan/vegetarian lifestyle. I respect any person who chooses not to eat these products for whatever reason they decide. I do believe in some cases there is unnecessary suffering with the killings of animals and i advocate free range and organic meat, dairy and fish products. Ive done my own research at times into my local area's practices into the slaughtering of animals for food and if they do not meet my country's national guidelines against cruelty i dont eat it.
There is also over consumptiion of meat products and im against that too. High intakes of animal fats (mostly red meat) can result in coronary and cholestrol problems and i stay aware of that.
Regardless of all this, i am only human and human's have been eating meat for thousands of years. Our bodies are designed to specifically break down animal compounds. If they werent i wouldnt be eating it today. I just make sure i make knowledgeable decisions about my health, the wellbeing of my unborn child and partner and where and how my meat is cured.
I don't disagree that animals feel pain or horror. I do think that animals are nothing more than pests and is degrades me to eat. A cow or a chicken is nothing more than a big bug.
I also feel eating Cultivated Vegtables, Fruits, Legumes, Grains, has to be the most cultured thing one can do.
Enough of my point of view. Now the question. I belive meateaters problems with going veg. are .
Ignorance. I wouldn't be suprised if most modern American don't know or think where there hamburger or saltded chicken roast comes from or even what it is.
Your Different. Even though i am in America land of immigrants. There are Americans that don't know and dislike people that are different.
Your Mommy made it. A lot of people and probabley a lot of men can't get over there Mother. If your unfamiliar how can you replace her?
Advertising. Someone doesn't know or gets too many warm fuzzy feeling from the TV to look past the fast food resteraunt and Pre-pared food aisles at the local supermart.
Anger. Look at the meat your eating and the leather belt around your waist. Eating, wearing, or whatever an imprisoned (not just because they'd be homeless anyway) maybe tortured and brutaly slaughtered animal can't be good for one's pyshce.
This would be a view of why someone would attack or dismiss someone who eats veg.
Had a good laugh at "I didn't fight my way to the top of the food chain to eat rabbit food." What, a scuffle broke out at the butcher's?
You have a lot of good answers, especially the one about it being similar to religion. Jehovah's Witnesses, for example, are merely pests in most people's eyes; a pity vegetarians have a bit of the same bad rap.
And, given your two statements -- why does anybody eat junk food? There's no way of arguing that it's healthy, life-extending stuff. Why do people drink to excess, smoke, get fat, etc, etc? They know it's bad, but they like it, and there are ways to rationalise it. So.
I suppose they make fun of vegetarians thanks to the PETA-pushers, just like people make fun of Christians because of a few 'bible-thumper' types.
You forgot that eating meat has also been linked to colon cancer, heart disease, obesity, high blood pressure and high cholesterol... among other things. :)
I agree with you on all counts. I don't know WHY meat-eaters become so defensive. I think a lot of it has to do with those hard-core vegans and vegetarians who "go off" on people for eating meat in their presence, etc. But even so... I'm a lacto-ovo who never says a thing to anyone as they slurp the blood off their plate with their bread. :( Yet I still get the "WHY would you want to be a vegetarian???" question at least weekly.
"Tradition"... yeah. That's what MADE me go veg. I started thinking with my own brain and realized that it's our society, nothing else, that tells us which animals we "can" eat. Once I asked myself WHY it's okay to eat a cow but not a horse, a chicken but not a parrot... and I couldn't give myself a good answer... I knew I had to go veg. Now, I'm not some conspiracy theorist here... but I'm sorry... I can't eat an animal just because "my people" always have. Society isn't always right... we used to do lobotomies on homosexuals, we used to sell African Americans as if they were furniture, we used believe the world was flat... the list goes on.
I can understand someone becoming defensive if a vegetarian starts going off on a meat-eater for eating meat... but our choice to be a vegetarian isnt' inconveniencing anyone (unless taking an extra three seconds to ask if the soup is veggie based counts) but us... so WHY do they care????
thank you! i hate being criticized for being a vegetarian. people always assume i'm unhealthy and don't get enough nutrients. i don't see why it's anyone else's concern what another person is eating or not eating.
It is human nature to want to feel that what we're doing is right, proper, and logical. When we're confronted with something that suggests that our current practices are not the best ones, it's uncomfortable. We can either consider that our choices may not have been the best ones, which is extremely disturbing, or we can reject that premise without truly considering it, so that we don't have to feel bad about our actions. That's the more comfortable approach. And we do this by searching our minds for any arguments we can for why the challenge must be wrong, to justify our current behavior.
Think about that for a moment: Our feeling that our current actions are correct isn't based on our arguments. Rather, our actions come first and then we come up with the arguments to try to support those actions. If we were truly logical, we'd consider the evidence first and then decide the best course of action. But often we have it in reverse, because it's too difficult to accept that we might have been wrong.
This is particularly true when it comes to vegetarianism. It is quite easy to identify because the anti-vegetarian arguments are usually so weak and desperate, compared to other kinds of discourse. A person who would never normally suggest something so fantastic as the idea that plants can think and feel pain, will suddenly all but lunge for such an argument when they feel their meat-eating ways are being questioned. It's human nature.
Ok, short answer because they aren't true.
1.) No sensible vegans can ever contest that we were deigned to eat meat. Even the most ardent vegan scientists agree that human's are designed to eat meat, that is not in question.
That we do not have claws, talons, or incisors to hunt proves nothing. When early hominids ate meat they scavenged it, as vultures do, using their fingers to get the sinews and meat other larger animals like lions couldn't. That didn't require huge teeth or claws, nor tools, although they did use them at this point to help butcher the carcass. It was only later that they began to hunt the meat themselves, and only much later they began to cook it. It is interesting that even now if someone was brought up eating raw meat he would have no problem with it, in some increasingly few parts of the world they still eat meat raw.
The last few million years of human evolution have revolved completely around tools. We used advanced stone tools long before we began to hunt our own meat, and as such there was no need for evolution to bestow us with large claws or teeth to kill prey, as we aldready had those tools. That doesn't at all mean that we aren't designed to eat meat.
Simple research into human biology reveals how we are meant to eat meat. For one thing, our body produces hydrochloric acid and meat splitting enzymes that herbivores don't produce and are solely used for the digestion of meat. There are adaptations to our teeth (not incisors, rather the size of the jaw), stomach and intestines which have made a human being very adept at meat digestion. There is nothing wrong with the way our body digests meat, and we are so adept at eating it no scientists are of any doubt we've evolved to eat it.
In contrast, there are many reasons we aren't naturally herbivores. We cannot naturally get all the nutrients we need without animal products naturally. Vitamin B12 cannot be got, even now, without animal products or supplements, and a lack of it can cause anaemia and impending death. 60% of vegans even now have some level of B12 deficiency, as opposed to no meat eaters, which says something about how well adapted we are to a vegan diet.
All other nutrients can be got natually. But even that owes to that vegtables can now be sold all year round, even out of season, and can be flown into the country from all over the world. In bygone times people could only eat the relatively small range of plants that grew in their local area, and only when they were in season. Thus many more nutrients would have been unavailable and still more unavaillable for most of he year. Until very recently it would have been impossible for a vegan human to live naturally without dying very quickly.
Now, meat makes up for all these lost nutrients very nicely, and it really shows how we aren't naturally vegans, as until very recently it was impossible to live like that.
Now, as for that our intestines have similarities to that of a herbivores, that might be true, but it doesn't change a thing. While longer than a carnivore's, our intestine are much shorter than a herbivore's, and we lack a working appendix with which to fully digest plant matter: we can't digest cellulose. The fact is while our intestines are made for plants, they aren't made for plants alone.
2.) I can't really judge this point because it is completely based on a person's ethics. By your own admission some people don't think that important; I think it therefore odd that you include it as a truth which people can't argue against, as if they don't care there is little point.
Anyway, to the question. Would you disagree that vegetarianism is intrinsically anti-meat. Just by being vegetarian, people know you disagree with their lifestyle, and become defencive.
Still, I don't think veggies are at all exempt on this front.
1.) We are omnivores. Meaning, we have the body to eat some meat and some plants. Not just plants, not just meat. Both.
2.) That's just a matter of opinion, and while it's important, it doesn't need to be discussed right now.
3.) You're right, tradition isn't always correct. But we do it anyway.
4.) If we're more moral, then who cares if a piggy or chicken dies?