Eating meat unethical?!

Question: Eating meat unethical?
If 1. Human beings are animals 2. It is natural for many animals to eat other animals, then is eating meat fine?


I don't think it's unethical to eat meat. You're right. If you leave a wolf with a sheep, he's going to eat the sheep. We do too. If we cannot create chemical energy (like plants), then we're forced to consume other life that has it. The ethical part really comes in with how we go about treating the animals while they are alive. Packing the 4 chickens to a cage, or tying baby cows to the grown in small huts to keep them tender? That isn't just 'eating' them. For extended periods of time, they're hurt and mistreated. This is also why there are laws about how you can kill animals.

So yes, the general concept of eating meat is acceptable ethically. But no, not ALL meat is obtained ethically. I'm satisfied drawing the line there, where torturous conditions aren't allowed, but a quick and painless death after a reasonably fine life is.

So if certain animals do something in nature, that means it's okay for humans to do it? I hope you realize the absurd implications that would follow from that line of reasoning. In nature, many animals fight territorial battles to the death, or rape for the purpose of procreation. I certainly don't think that makes it okay for humans to do the same.

If there's a difference between dietary issues and other interactions between animals, you would need to include (and justify) that in your argument. The only premises you gave were that humans are animals and some animals eat other animals in nature. Your conclusion was that it's okay for humans to eat animals. In order for that conclusion to follow, your argument needs to use the implicit premise that if animals do something in nature, then it's okay for humans to do the same. Either modify your argument, or accept its implications.

3 TD, I guess some people don't like logic...

Are you comparing animals in the wild that need meat to survive to a human? Although I can see your point.
The way I see it, eating meat in general isn't unethical. It's the way that meat was obtained that is. Sure, I'm a Vegan, but if I was to go over to a hunter's house and they offered me something they had killed themselves, knowing it didn't suffer, then I may try it, although the sound of meat is just disgusting to me anymore. I guess it would all just depend.
Cramming 6 chickens in a cage, killing pregnant cows, keeping pigs in individual cages so small they can't turn their heads; no that's not ethical at all. I would rather shoot myself then support it.
I know I didn't explain too well. :/

This style of logic NEVER holds up. Why? Because of just how far you can take it... "Since humans are animals..." followed by "Well, male lions force themselves sexually on females who aren't even cycling... therefore rape is fine". Or, "Hamsters will eat their own young, therefore infanticide and cannibalism are fine".

And, since you seem convinced that you made a dietary argument (you didn't)... the same "logic" can apply... "Since so many animals, and even omnivores practice coprophagy, humans should as well!"... not so appealing a logic-stream if it gets you eating poo, is it?

Eating meat could be unethical if you were to knowingly eat animals that were treated cruelly, or killed inhumanely.

Since most of us don't know how the animals we are eating were treated when alive, there is no way to know for sure if we are being unethical or not.

Ethics depend entirely on one's point of view.

If you think it is just totally unethical to eat meat at all, then you'd have to call all meat eating animals unethical.

I doubt animals bother about ethics. Their only priority is survival.

Every time I watch animal documentaries and see wild predators chasing animals for their meat, I do not know what to feel, when an antelope was able to escape the lion and the cubs would go hungry, but I don't want to see any animals killed also. I myself had tried to become vegetarian but my body just craved for meat so much I felt hungry all day. I think in reality there is no set ethical rules for humans, they could differ based on different circumstances, background and environment.

Eating meat is natural for humans, but we have a responsibility to treat the animals with respect and not torture them. The conditions that most livestock in this country live under is disgraceful. If you're going to raise an animal for meat, it should be allowed to eat its natural diet, roam free outside, and slaughtered very quickly in a stress free environment. If you're going to hunt an animal, you should be sure that you have a clean shot that will hopefully kill the animal before you pull the trigger or release the arrow. People seem the think that just because its natural to eat its ok for us to mistreat them, and its not. Feeding cows grains is not humane. Keeping chickens cluttered indoors all day is not humane. I don't understand why people love to debate about whether or not people should eat meat. Its missing the whole point. You can eat meat or not eat it, the important thing is that we end these corporate factory farms which are polluting the land, torturing animals, and poisoning our bodies. And one more thing, factory farms are absolutely not necessary to feed everyone. In fact, small farms are on average 35% more productive per acre than factory farms, because you can practice sustainable methods which are always more productive.

Yes, it's perfectly ok for humans to eat other animals. We are animals. Lions eat zebras. Why shouldn't we eat lions? Because our food traditions in the US doesn't include eating lions. In extreme circumstances it is ok for humans to eat other dead humans to save their own life.

Ethics are a personal matter. Some countries think it's perfectly ok to stone a woman to death. I don't. But there has been no tribe or country in history that didn't eat animals.…

So, to you, there is no difference between a hyena chasing its prey in the wild, and a human subjecting livestock to painful lives under the most deplorable conditions (sheltered indoors, crammed, de-beaked, pumped with hormones and antibiotics, castrated without anesthetics), all for greed? The described scenario is not some obscure practice. Mom n' pop type farms are a shade from the past and are quickly vanishing from the landscape or being taken over by multi-national corporations whose only interest is $. Mass production with zero care for animal welfare.

But if you still insist, go ahead and use those canine teeth and that predatory instinct of yours to bite into the neck muscles of a live pig and digest its flesh raw without getting trichinosis. You were just a while ago comparing yourself to predators in the wild, so I don't see why you would fail to meet this challenge...

Why is your compassion limited to house pets? Do you have a good argument? Culture is not a good one.

Give me something logical. I'm waiting.

I think you are trying to get us to get us to view the options of cannibalism? If Humans are animals and if its natural for animals to eat other animals wouldn't it be okay for humans to eat other humans? If not... oops.

I agree with Dumb Texan and Emily.

Oh, yeah, and what about herbivore animals? The ones that only eat plants? Like elephants and cows and apes and horses and . . .I think you get my point. :)

I don't understand your point. Animals eat other animals for survival and because frankly they have no choice. And...?

what? just eat what you want to...whatever meets the needs of your diet and appetite...

meat is an important part of human diet

One can twist ANYTHING to make/break a point.

I can see both sides of this story. I think it has been proven over and over by every healthy vegan...that we do not need to consume meat or animal products to live healthy productive lives. The question if that is why would we? Well, maybe it is to preserve tradition. In some cultures, people leave foraging plants to the animals, then harvest the animal which could be considered efficient eating. On the other hand a veg will tell you that eating plant based is more efficient because if you are eating farm raised meat, you have to farm the animal's food first, then the animal which is double farming, double use of resources to feed people once. Why would you?

I can't really argue with either. I know that I am a hypocrite too. I can't kill an animal, and yet I do eat meat. In fact, I buy cheap meat that was probably treated horribly when alive.

I think the most humane/animal friendly way to eat meat is to hunt and fish it from the wild, a clean kill by a skilled outdoorsy type person. An animal taken from a sustainable, healthy, happy population that is living on its own terms, faithfully reproducing and defending it's family until the quick and bitter end by a person who knows how to inflict a clean kill. So much the better if you also use the leather, the beak, the bones, the feathers, the guts etc.

This by the way is the argument that many carnivores make when they is tradition for my people to eat meat...but they take the fillet and the steaks and leave the rest of that animal to rot, where that person's ancestors would have made much more use of a kill than that. That is NOT. THE. SAME. THING. So don't pretend that it is.

Its much deeper than that, as Emily pointed out your logic can also be applied to canniablism and other things deemed unethical.
Are humans able to eat meat? Yes
Does our biological functions justify our actions? no, i'm quite capable of murder with my bare hands for eg.

You cannot care for animal abuse be it in homes to puppies etc & consume meat, it is hypocritical. The very act you are against of torture/abuse/death of an individual animal is then applied to something deemed ''socially acceptable'' (ie eating cattle). The logic doesn't fit.
Just as it was once seen as acceptable for slavery to foreign tribes, to black people etc but now seen as wrong, it will eventually encompass animals. As Schweitzer said ''we must avoid bringing pain into any beings life where possible & question things no matter how wrapped up in tradition''
Similarly as Gary Yourofksy says ''what is your definition of a holocaust? A mass genocide of human beings, or a mass genocide of innocent beings?''
As vegetarians/vegans keep pointing out time in time out, there are alternatives that are both sustainable to the world population, much more environmentally friendly & cruelty free in production that can cater for our needs.

unforuntaely YA is a poor forum for counter debates

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